MALT (LIQUOR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

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MALT (LIQUOR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#1

Post by MI-Cans »

I'll start with the Volume I Supplement. There are 4 groups, Malt Lager, Malt Liquor, Stout Malt Liquor and No-Alcohol. The first three are easily understood. There are a group of "BREW" names that were used. They are CEREAL BEV, M BEVERAGE, MALT, MALT BEV, MALT BEVERAGE, MALT TONIC, MALTA, MBEV, MTONIC, N BEER, N/A, NEAR and NEAR BEER. Somewhere on the can, they ALL had one of these or a similar statement:

• NON-TAXABLE AS FERMENTED LIQUOR UNDER FEDERAL LAW
• NON-TAXABLE UNDER SECTION5051 I.R.C.
• NON-ALCOHOLIC
• ALCOHOL CONTENT LESS THAN ONE-HALF OF ONE % BY VOLUME

So, to minimize the searching and the groupings, I lumped all 13 of the above into a single category…NO ALCOHOL! Hopefully that somewhat simplifies things. Click image to enlarge.


VOLUME I - MALT LAGER
SUPP 1-MALT LAGER.jpg

VOLUME I - MALT LIQUOR
SUPP 1-MALT LIQUOR 01.jpg
SUPP 1-MALT LIQUOR 02.jpg
SUPP 1-MALT LIQUOR 03.jpg

VOLUME I - STOUT MALT LIQUOR
SUPP 1-STOUT MALT LIQUOR.jpg

VOLUME I - NO-ALCOHOL
SUPP 1-NO ALCOHOL.jpg

VOLUME II - MALT LAGER
SUPP 2-MALT LAGER.jpg

VOLUME II - MALT LIQUOR
SUPP 2-MALT LIQUOR 01.jpg
SUPP 2-MALT LIQUOR 02.jpg
SUPP 2-MALT LIQUOR 03.jpg
SUPP 2-MALT LIQUOR 04.jpg
SUPP 2-MALT LIQUOR 05.jpg
SUPP 2-MALT LIQUOR 06.jpg
SUPP 2-MALT LIQUOR 07.jpg
SUPP 2-MALT LIQUOR 08.jpg
SUPP 2-MALT LIQUOR 09.jpg
SUPP 2-MALT LIQUOR 10.jpg
SUPP 2-MALT LIQUOR 11.jpg

VOLUME II - STOUT MALT LIQUOR
SUPP 2-STOUT MALT LIQUOR 01.jpg
SUPP 2-STOUT MALT LIQUOR 02.jpg

VOLUME II - NO-ALCOHOL
SUPP 2-NO ALCOHOL 01.jpg
SUPP 2-NO ALCOHOL 02.jpg

NEW CANS DATABASE - MALT LIQUOR
NCD MALT LIQUOR 01.jpg
NCD MALT LIQUOR 02.jpg
NCD MALT LIQUOR 03.jpg
NCD MALT LIQUOR 04.jpg
NCD MALT LIQUOR 05.jpg
NCD MALT LIQUOR 06.jpg

NEW CANS DATABASE - NO-ALCOHOL
NCD NON ALCOHOLIC.jpg

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Last edited by MI-Cans on Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:58 pm, edited 12 times in total.


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Re: MALT (LIQOUR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#2

Post by henry porter »

Nice. Thanks!

I have 64 of the Malt Lagers, but I think I have at least one not on this list. I'll check.

Excellent resource. Thanks again
Wanted: Malt Lager breweriana and Malt Lager cans:
8oz flats: Gluek Stite 241-05, Bulldog 239-10, Schlitz (Class Book) 56-13, 56-14.
12oz flats: Country Club 51-37, 51-37-5.
12oz tabs: Colt 56-22; Colt 45 56-05, 56-10, 56-11–05, 56-12; Country Club 57-18; Red Bird 239-32; Schlitz 121-15.
16oz tabs: Calgary 146-23; Carling 147-01, 147-01-05; Colt 147-22; Schlitz 166-10

Last 2 to complete the set: Suntory 354 and 364.
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Re: MALT (LIQOUR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#3

Post by idigrust »

Incredible job as always !
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Re: MALT (LIQOUR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#4

Post by oldindiapaleale »

Unlike the Supplements, the New Cans Database (NCD) has no way of sorting. Naming of the cans is all over the place. Same brands show no consistency in naming. The numbers associated with the cans are based on the random order that the cans were entered into the database.

To allow for sorting wouldn't thumbnails/details of the new cans have to be published in a physical book form first, thus creating a page and position number? Such as the volume 1 and 2 database, this would be volume 3.
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Re: MALT (LIQOUR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#5

Post by MI-Cans »

@oldindiapaleale
oldindiapaleale wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:07 pm To allow for sorting wouldn't thumbnails/details of the new cans have to be published in a physical book form first, thus creating a page and position number? Such as the volume 1 and 2 database, this would be volume 3.
I have referred to the NCD and the Foreign cans database as Volumes 3 and 4 on occasion in the past. I thought it was appropriate back whenever.

I always thought that the Supplements were well conceived and perfectly designed to be functional bases with the ability to add newly discovered cans or their variations. They still are. Each Supplement can have an UNLIMITED number of cans added. As of this morning, Volume I has 7,843 cans and Volume II has 9,147 cans.

The Foreign cans database was actually written and structured to resemble the Supplements. It was an admirable attempt but it fails on several fronts. Supposedly it has 14,040 items listed. All in all, a good effort and a work in progress.

The NCD is the ***** child here. It started as one man’s personal database that the product team “adopted” as their own and allowed it to continue in its original form. Today it has 42,743 entries. Nothing about it resembles the Supplements. It will never be compatible with the Supplements (like the Foreign database).

When I referred to sorting, I thought it’d be appropriate to show each brand in an alphabetical order. Some Schlitz cans were named “Bull”. Other brands also had slight variations in the names to where they couldn’t be grouped together. So I “tweaked” the naming to facilitate the organizing of the images. Personal decision.

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Last edited by MI-Cans on Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: MALT (LIQOUR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#6

Post by stringsx24now »

Excellent data base with pictures. Good information for the future.
Thank you.

One note and it may be minor: in the Malt Liquor section, you show 2 Gluek Malt liquor crowntainers. I know there are more than two varieties, and the Crowntainer Central website (Gary G.'s collection) shows 4 different cans. All are alcohol percentage differences that show on the label.
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Re: MALT (LIQOUR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#7

Post by hemmings »

What a great job... one note- Gluek 241-5 should be moved to Malt Lagers. Feel like a grammar N. aah Barry T made me be the Gluek police...
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Re: MALT (LIQOUR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#8

Post by henry porter »

239-04 Ace Hi Malt Lager is in the Malt Liquor section

242-22 University Club Malt Lager is in the Stout section

242-23 University Club Malt Liquor is in the Malt Lager section

Tough to parse through several databases so some misplacements are to be expected....
Wanted: Malt Lager breweriana and Malt Lager cans:
8oz flats: Gluek Stite 241-05, Bulldog 239-10, Schlitz (Class Book) 56-13, 56-14.
12oz flats: Country Club 51-37, 51-37-5.
12oz tabs: Colt 56-22; Colt 45 56-05, 56-10, 56-11–05, 56-12; Country Club 57-18; Red Bird 239-32; Schlitz 121-15.
16oz tabs: Calgary 146-23; Carling 147-01, 147-01-05; Colt 147-22; Schlitz 166-10

Last 2 to complete the set: Suntory 354 and 364.
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Re: MALT (LIQOUR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#9

Post by oldindiapaleale »

There is also this New Bedford, Massachusetts 'Malta' can in the book and supplement as 115-20.

However this juice tab is a variation without 'Puerto Rico' in red across the top.
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Re: MALT (LIQOUR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#10

Post by MI-Cans »

@oldindiapaleale
oldindiapaleale wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 6:11 pm There is also this New Bedford, Massachusetts 'Malta' can in the book and supplement as 115-20.
However this juice tab is a variation without 'Puerto Rico' in red across the top.
Thank you for that. I gotta quit trusting the search functions. Some will be duplicated in two categories. Just another prime example of the search inconsistencies in the Supplements. I will be re-doing that group completely. Here's the existing parameters:

Volume I
Malt Tonic - 1
Malta - 1
Near Beer - 26

Volume II

M Beverage - 1
Malt Bev - 14
Malt Beverage - 4
Malt Tonic - 4
Malta - 8
MBev - 4
MTonic - 1
N Beer - 10
Near - 50
Near Beer - 19


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Re: MALT (LIQOUR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#11

Post by MI-Cans »

I think I'm done. If anyone knows of any that belong in this composite, please post here. The list is as complete and up to date as I can make it...at least for now!

Someday, they'll get their act together and fix the data so anyone can find all 100 cans in one search instead of using 10 different parameters to do so. In Volume I, "Near Beer" has 26 cans. In Volume II, "N Beer" has 10 cans, "Near" has 50 cans and "Near Beer" has 19 cans. If it was me, I'd make an M1 decision to edit the Brew category for all those cans and classify them as "NEAR BEER". Period.

Back when I was in the good graces of the PDT, I even offered to assist with the editing. I guess when you keep pointing out the flaws in the databases, they don't want to hear from you. They label your info as harsh and mean so you'll stop doing what you were asked to do in the first place. Hey, it's their show...

Again, thanks for everyone's assistance and patience with this composite. If anyone has an idea for a useful composite let me know. It gives me something to do and in my mind, helps improve the Hobby.


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Re: MALT (LIQOUR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#12

Post by Joe Older »

Excellent work, thank you! However, I don't believe the 5 Trommers Malt beers you have in the malt beverage category belong there. All the others are near beers and I don't believe those were. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken.
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Re: MALT (LIQOUR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#13

Post by MI-Cans »

@Joe Older
Joe Older wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:16 am Excellent work, thank you! However, I don't believe the 5 Trommers Malt beers you have in the malt beverage category belong there. All the others are near beers and I don't believe those were. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken.
Thank you, Joe! And you are 100% correct. Checking the images available, there's no indication of non-alcohol.

So the search function found them because the person entering the data assumed they were Malt Beverages and indicated that in the "Brew" category. Easy mistake to make. Nobody gets crucified because there are plenty of reasons for mistakes in these databases. It'll all be good someday!

I love how much information is discovered, learned and shared on this site. If you're in this Hobby, visiting here and can't learn something, you must just be looking at the pictures, but you can still learn from them...


one.png

two.png

Keep 'em coming...we'll get it all straightened out...eventually.

Wonder if I'll set the record for most edits on a single post?

Everyone's welcome to post pics of their Malt (whichever) collections here.


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Re: MALT (LIQOUR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#14

Post by MI-Cans »

I had hoped some of you might post pics of your malt collections but no takers. So I'll put up my meager assortment. Click to enlarge.

MY CANS.jpg

MY CANS2.jpg

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Re: MALT (LIQOUR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#15

Post by pinnacle-project »

Meager? You're being modest. That's a nice assortment.
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Re: MALT (LIQOUR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#16

Post by baartz »

Here's one I didn't see. You might have found it under "cereal beverage" perhaps?
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Re: MALT (LIQOUR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#17

Post by baartz »

Here's some I found that may be different?

The two Texas Pride may be the reverse of ones already shown. The Schlitz Malt Liquor and Schlitz Stout Malt Liquor are from Hawaii.
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Re: MALT (LIQOUR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#18

Post by baartz »

Here's some of my Schlitz Malt Lager, Malt Liquor, and Stout Malt Liquor cans.
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Re: MALT (LIQOUR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#19

Post by bodean »

MI-Cans wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:47 pm I had hoped some of you might post pics of your malt collections but no takers. So I'll put up my meager assortment. Click to enlarge.
Meager? Nothing to sneeze at! :smt023

Looked through what I had and this is the only odd ball I found. The font is different and no script on each side of the X/L but it may just be a misprint... I don't know... I don't collect variations. Just wanted to add what I had...

I may have some 7-8 oz. Malts to add but I'll have to look.
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Re: MALT (LIQOUR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#20

Post by baartz »

Wellington has two variations. Look at the font size of the words "Brewed and Canned By" on these two cans. The first is by Continental Can and the second is by American Can.
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Re: MALT (LIQOUR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#21

Post by jimw630 »

I've always found this one interesting since you'd expect it to be a Pilsner based on the name, but it has Malt Liquor listed on the side
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Re: MALT (LIQOUR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#22

Post by jimw630 »

12oz version not listed
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Re: MALT (LIQUOR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#23

Post by YooperAho »

eh! yooperaho here. WELL.Over Looked.(Aluminum.)
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Re: MALT (LIQOUR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#24

Post by MI-Cans »

@baartz
baartz wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 12:04 am Here's one I didn't see. You might have found it under "cereal beverage" perhaps?
Good eye, Brian! Your observation made me realized that the Volume I Supplement wasn't as fixed as I thought it was. Looks like another restart for this project!

That can looks like 1 147 18 0 or 2 136 24 1 depending on the lid.


ZING.jpg

In Volume I, it is listed as a NEAR BEER. In Volume II, it has no designation in the "BREW" category so no search parameter in that category will ever find it.

Thanks for posting it along with what you have in your collection


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Re: MALT (LIQOUR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#25

Post by MI-Cans »

@bodean
bodean wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 1:07 amLooked through what I had and this is the only odd ball I found. The font is different and no script on each side of the X/L but it may just be a misprint...
Butch, thanks for the contribution. Checking both Supplements, of the 7 examples, only one can has the "MAN SIZE" statement and that's 1 087 34 0. Yours could be a variation or transition can from Fehrs to Oertel's depending what's really in the banners on either side of the XL. I can't tell from your image.

1087340.jpg

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Re: MALT (LIQOUR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#26

Post by MI-Cans »

@baartz
baartz wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 1:18 am Wellington has two variations. Look at the font size of the words "Brewed and Canned By" on these two cans. The first is by Continental Can and the second is by American Can.
Brian, My first impression is that the coloring and the fonts on the right side can are all bold and darker. The fonts on the left can are not bold, giving the possible impression of being smaller. Maybe an ink-saving process by the other can company? An obvious variation. Collectible? Up to the owner of the can.

Just my opinion.


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Re: MALT (LIQOUR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#27

Post by MI-Cans »

@jimw630
jimw630 wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:58 am I've always found this one interesting since you'd expect it to be a Pilsner based on the name, but it has Malt Liquor listed on the side
Nice Catch! Of the 12 Mama's cans listed in the NCD, none show the Malt Liquor designation. Even the one you're providing, is listed as a PILS. That's why my search didn't uncover it. I will add it in the next re-do.

Thanks.


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Re: MALT (LIQOUR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#28

Post by MI-Cans »

@jimw630
jimw630 wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 12:18 pm 12oz version not listed
Congrats Jim, but you hit a nerve on this one. It's listed, but only in the NCD. Here it is from the NCD and the next image shows it in my project as an NCD inclusion. Click to enlarge.

JAGUAR.png

ALREADY THERE.png

The following is my explanation of why it's a sore spot. It's only there in case someone cares...if you don't, you need not go any farther…

The issue that’s a sore spot with me is the BCCA’s inclusion of cans from the BCCA published book, American Beer Cans 1975-1988. All the cans listed there absolutely existed prior to 1989 (without Gov’t Warning). In November of 1988, the Government warning was mandated. Years ago, it was suggested that any cans with the Gov’t Warning be placed in the New Cans Database. I believe it was BeerDave Gausepohl who proposed it. It made perfect sense to me. Easy to define and separate. A lot of the cans from the ABC book had already added to the Supplement Volume II, not the NCD.

The leader of the Product Development Team (PDT) asked for my assistance on a number of issues. That included their inability to add more cans to the Supplements because of the programming language limitations. (That was their then excuse for putting ABC content into the NCD. As of today, there are 249 ABC cans in the NCD. None have a Gov’t Warning.)

I suggested, with multiple options, programming mods that would allow for possibly an INFINITE number of cans to be added to both Supplements. I found evidence of their programmer testing my suggestion in both Supplements. I have screen dumps of that. I also found in my searching that a number of cans are still displayed in the Supplement using my fix. If anyone’s interested, I can provide the numbers. I can back up everything I say with images or documents.

They’ve never acknowledged my suggestion.

They’ve never acknowledged the testing.

They’ve never acknowledged the test results.

The BCCA BOD is just an old-school clique. I sent each one, at the time, proof of my accusations and was berated for it.

Getting off my soap box now…


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Re: MALT (LIQUOR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#29

Post by MI-Cans »

@YooperAho
YooperAho wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:09 pm eh! yooperaho here. WELL.Over Looked.(Aluminum.)
Outstanding observation, Jon. Definitely a variation. I will try to find a color image or modify your pic to include it.

Are you already working at Brule?

Thanks for the contribution.


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Re: MALT (LIQUOR, LAGER, STOUT, et al)

#30

Post by MI-Cans »

Almost forgot...thanks to @Chris S..

It's a Jet Malt Liquor 16oz flat top.

I will be adding on the next re-do.


Jet ML 16 oz flat.jpg

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