What Would You Do?
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- willssoda
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What Would You Do?
I recently found these two signs while looking through pics from a show on this Forum and worked out a deal with the owner. Items shipped and were packed loosely with just a handful of packing P nuts separated by a priority box. Needless to say the signs arrived damaged on all corners but one. I sent the attached pics and message to the seller and this is the response i received ? I offered to split shipping so cost wasn’t an issue and USPS would not let me make a claim since it was packed so poorly. I made a mistake in sending friends and family since he was a member and doing so left me no recourse on receiving a refund. So I have to ask. What Would You Do?
Interested in all flat and Cone Soda and Water cans.
- Ed Johnson
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Re: What Would You Do?
I would be pretty annoyed to get that response after bringing the damage to the sellers attention.
Not much else to do, it does not sound like the seller is going to give you an adjustment based on terrible packaging, and I suspect they will tell you to pound sand if you want to return the signs.
Unfortunately this might be a take the L and move on situation.
I would share the sellers name in the members only section. I suspect they will soon be liquidating anything they do collect to raise cash for the less fortunate. They make that pretty clear in their response to you.....
Not much else to do, it does not sound like the seller is going to give you an adjustment based on terrible packaging, and I suspect they will tell you to pound sand if you want to return the signs.
Unfortunately this might be a take the L and move on situation.
I would share the sellers name in the members only section. I suspect they will soon be liquidating anything they do collect to raise cash for the less fortunate. They make that pretty clear in their response to you.....
Wanted: Hartford Connecticut Breweriana for my collection.....
- willssoda
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Re: What Would You Do?
Thanks for your response. Not worried about $ it was more the simple fact that this is coming from a member. I have always had top notch transactions with fellow RB er’s in this forum and never have I had a problem like this. For now I am keeping the members identity private.Ed Johnson wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:37 pm I would be pretty annoyed to get that response after bringing the damage to the sellers attention.
Not much else to do, it does not sound like the seller is going to give you an adjustment based on terrible packaging, and I suspect they will tell you to pound sand if you want to return the signs.
Unfortunately this might be a take the L and move on situation.
I would share the sellers name in the members only section. I suspect they will soon be liquidating anything they do collect to raise cash for the less fortunate. They make that pretty clear in their response to you.....
Thanks
Interested in all flat and Cone Soda and Water cans.
- Pbama
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Re: What Would You Do?
That’s a pretty smart *** reply. Wish you would share the members RB handle so that no other members make the mistake of transacting with him. Sorry this happened to an upstanding member like you. Really sux!!!!
- willssoda
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Re: What Would You Do?
Thanks! Thinking I’d give him a chance to make it right before I toss under the bus. I’ve set on this for two days, didn’t want to make a knee jerk reaction. We all make mistakes.
Interested in all flat and Cone Soda and Water cans.
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Re: What Would You Do?
That is a ridiculous response, every part of it!!!
Condition of the whole item is critical, not just the display side.
You can be heartbroken over a plastic beer sign AND the folks in the van.
The packaging obviously was not fine.
Cutting a good deal on shipping cost does not make the damage OK.
Insurance would not cover damage done to a poorly packaged item.
I would never want to do business with that seller, you should expose the seller if they don't make it right.
I would ask for a refund!
Condition of the whole item is critical, not just the display side.
You can be heartbroken over a plastic beer sign AND the folks in the van.
The packaging obviously was not fine.
Cutting a good deal on shipping cost does not make the damage OK.
Insurance would not cover damage done to a poorly packaged item.
I would never want to do business with that seller, you should expose the seller if they don't make it right.
I would ask for a refund!
- willssoda
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Re: What Would You Do?
Thanks. I honestly should have know better when the seller commented it may take weeks to find a box!?? Only took 12 days to find this boxdan.bolek wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:38 am That is a ridiculous response, every part of it!!!
Condition of the whole item is critical, not just the display side.
You can be heartbroken over a plastic beer sign AND the folks in the van.
The packaging obviously was not fine.
Cutting a good deal on shipping cost does not make the damage OK.
Insurance would not cover damage done to a poorly packaged item.
I would never want to do business with that seller, you should expose the seller if they don't make it right.
I would ask for a refund!
Interested in all flat and Cone Soda and Water cans.
- DaddyDewrop
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Re: What Would You Do?
This is why I don't do Friends and Family unless I know the seller pretty well. There is really no recourse if you get screwed outside of public shaming which doesn't always work and in some cases backfire on you.
Chris E.
Chris E.
Last edited by Chris E. on Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- CMD
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Re: What Would You Do?
Please let us know who it is...you'll be doing the club a favor
Thanks
Dan
Thanks
Dan
Wanted Frederick's cone ,Balboa IRTP by Southern Finer, Flavor ale by Monarch, Little Imp, gold IRTP Finer Flavor by Southern, Lucky Lager OI Withdrawn free, white/gold Imperial from Maier, Tornbergs WF cone,Rainier OD cone,Niborg,Acme 3.2% on side panel, Malt Syrup tins or labels,Uncle Dan's Root beer signs ,I-7 openers needed....BALBOA,UNION, ROGER WILLIAMS ALE
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- willssoda
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Re: What Would You Do?
LolDaddyDewrop wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:24 am Not only was it a smart*** reply, but he also spelled "you're" wrong!
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- DURTBAGG
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Re: What Would You Do?
What would I do??
After that kind of smart a$$ response, I would give them a deadline (time up to you) to make thing right with full disclosure that you will “out” them if not done.
If deadline passes and they don’t make it right, then I would throw them under the bus so fast they wouldn’t even see the bus coming before it took them out!
Nobody should have to deal with that kind of nonsense!!
After that kind of smart a$$ response, I would give them a deadline (time up to you) to make thing right with full disclosure that you will “out” them if not done.
If deadline passes and they don’t make it right, then I would throw them under the bus so fast they wouldn’t even see the bus coming before it took them out!
Nobody should have to deal with that kind of nonsense!!
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Re: What Would You Do?
A bit of an aside but relevant here ... as a rule, Amazon boxes are NOT as strong as most other corrugated cardboard boxes you see. Most boxes have some numbers on the side indicating their strength. A fairly good, solid box will have a "bursting strength" of 200 (not sure the units or how measured). Amazon boxes are almost always below this. There are other numbers on a cardboard box related to strength, and again Amazon boxes don't measure up. These almost always get recycled around our house, I have plenty of boxes and 95+% of them are better quality!
- willssoda
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Re: What Would You Do?
Good to know. I recommended foam board or a liquor store bottle box when he told me it May be weeks before he could find a box.Beercanpete wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:32 am A bit of an aside but relevant here ... as a rule, Amazon boxes are NOT as strong as most other corrugated cardboard boxes you see. Most boxes have some numbers on the side indicating their strength. A fairly good, solid box will have a "bursting strength" of 200 (not sure the units or how measured). Amazon boxes are almost always below this. There are other numbers on a cardboard box related to strength, and again Amazon boxes don't measure up. These almost always get recycled around our house, I have plenty of boxes and 95+% of them are better quality!
Interested in all flat and Cone Soda and Water cans.
- Ed Johnson
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Re: What Would You Do?
I have used Amazon boxes over the years with no issues. The key, is wrap the item well in bubble wrap and then use plenty of filler material, packing peanuts, newspaper or other paper. If the box is filled with enough 'filler' and well taped the item will be protected. I think the box Willssodas items were shipped in was too small regardless if properly filled - which it was not....willssoda wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:27 amGood to know. I recommended foam board or a liquor store bottle box when he told me it May be weeks before he could find a box.Beercanpete wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:32 am A bit of an aside but relevant here ... as a rule, Amazon boxes are NOT as strong as most other corrugated cardboard boxes you see. Most boxes have some numbers on the side indicating their strength. A fairly good, solid box will have a "bursting strength" of 200 (not sure the units or how measured). Amazon boxes are almost always below this. There are other numbers on a cardboard box related to strength, and again Amazon boxes don't measure up. These almost always get recycled around our house, I have plenty of boxes and 95+% of them are better quality!
Wanted: Hartford Connecticut Breweriana for my collection.....
- OhioCanGuy
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Re: What Would You Do?
This is spot on. If shipping something fragile, the box needs to be packed tight. I believe the USPS crush standard is like 70 lbs. Meaning you could potentially have up to 70 lbs. sitting on top of your box in transit. If a box is not packed tight, it becomes prone to being at least semi-crushed along the way.Ed Johnson wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:35 am
I have used Amazon boxes over the years with no issues. The key, is wrap the item well in bubble wrap and then use plenty of filler material, packing peanuts, newspaper or other paper. If the box is filled with enough 'filler' and well taped the item will be protected. I think the box Willssodas items were shipped in was too small regardless if properly filled - which it was not....
Sounds like the double whammy here was that not only was it not packed well, but the box wasn't big enough to provide a little buffer around the item.
Was it shipped priority mail? If so, you can at least file a $50 claim with USPS for damage.
Good luck!
Bob
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Flats, cones & early tabs. Ohio cans, ultra clean cans & shine. East coast cans. Rare rust. And, whatever else catches my eye.
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Flats, cones & early tabs. Ohio cans, ultra clean cans & shine. East coast cans. Rare rust. And, whatever else catches my eye.
- HumbleCanMan
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Re: What Would You Do?
Just take it as a loss. Before I have anyone ship anything to me I give them instructions on how to pack. And I ask them to send pictures of the packing.
Don't rat the person out. Karma is a real.
If the person you bought from was fair they would give you a full refund.
Blessings!
Don't rat the person out. Karma is a real.
If the person you bought from was fair they would give you a full refund.
Blessings!
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Re: What Would You Do?
Dear Will,
I'm sorry to hear about the damage your signs suffered. I had a person buy a straight steel can on ebay from me that was in a single can box made of very sturdy corrugated cardboard. I sent it first class so it wouldn't get mixed in with 70 pound boxes of auto parts! Anyway, he sent me photos of the box and can after he received it. All I can say is, it looked like it was intentionally destroyed. There is no other explanation! I refunded him fully and just had to "eat the cost and postage". It certainly wasn't the buyer's or my fault. The point is, you treat people right, even if you have to take a loss sometimes. The seller should refund your money even if the gorillas at the post office destroyed it. I do not write "fragile" on my packages anymore. It seems that some people in the post office take that as a personal challenge! His snarky response is what makes me angry. Personally, I would give this person an opportunity to make things right. If he refuses, I would let one other person know and try to smooth things out between you both. If that fails, I would let the rest of the membership know to protect them from this person. That's my 2 cents worth!
I'm sorry to hear about the damage your signs suffered. I had a person buy a straight steel can on ebay from me that was in a single can box made of very sturdy corrugated cardboard. I sent it first class so it wouldn't get mixed in with 70 pound boxes of auto parts! Anyway, he sent me photos of the box and can after he received it. All I can say is, it looked like it was intentionally destroyed. There is no other explanation! I refunded him fully and just had to "eat the cost and postage". It certainly wasn't the buyer's or my fault. The point is, you treat people right, even if you have to take a loss sometimes. The seller should refund your money even if the gorillas at the post office destroyed it. I do not write "fragile" on my packages anymore. It seems that some people in the post office take that as a personal challenge! His snarky response is what makes me angry. Personally, I would give this person an opportunity to make things right. If he refuses, I would let one other person know and try to smooth things out between you both. If that fails, I would let the rest of the membership know to protect them from this person. That's my 2 cents worth!
Brian Artzberger #22344
http://www.artzberger.com/BeerCans" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Collector of 12 oz or smaller US cans
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- Rand
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Re: What Would You Do?
Two things:
1) Be careful with the "pack it tight" suggestions. Once, Viggie sent me a fairly fragile can, that in most circumstances would have survived the trip, however to make doubly sure it did, he wrapped it tightly with those air filled tubes/pillows you see in your amazon boxes often, and put tape around the outside of the pillows. Well, the altitude of my Yosemite house is over 5000', and the lower air pressure made the pillows expand and they crushed the can. Generally, yes, pack it tight.....but there are exceptions.
2) Just got through dealing with a damaged beer can't.....ceramic Old Style oil lamp. In this case, he packed it in a super rigid tube, but the tube was exactly the size of the lamp, and the single layer of paper towel he put in there wasn't enough to cushion the blows, and it seems like the rigidity of the tube didn't allow for any absorption of shock loads....see resulting picture. So, here again, packing in a rigid box, isn't sufficient, there needs to be "padding" to disperse shock loading. (after a few back and forths, he did refund the purchase price)
1) Be careful with the "pack it tight" suggestions. Once, Viggie sent me a fairly fragile can, that in most circumstances would have survived the trip, however to make doubly sure it did, he wrapped it tightly with those air filled tubes/pillows you see in your amazon boxes often, and put tape around the outside of the pillows. Well, the altitude of my Yosemite house is over 5000', and the lower air pressure made the pillows expand and they crushed the can. Generally, yes, pack it tight.....but there are exceptions.
2) Just got through dealing with a damaged beer can't.....ceramic Old Style oil lamp. In this case, he packed it in a super rigid tube, but the tube was exactly the size of the lamp, and the single layer of paper towel he put in there wasn't enough to cushion the blows, and it seems like the rigidity of the tube didn't allow for any absorption of shock loads....see resulting picture. So, here again, packing in a rigid box, isn't sufficient, there needs to be "padding" to disperse shock loading. (after a few back and forths, he did refund the purchase price)
Rand "The Can't Man" Lindsly....Foot Soldier in the OI Wars....Honorably Discharged
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Re: What Would You Do?
When I owned these exact signs 24 years ago the plastic mold was fragile. Corners subject to crack or crumble, even then, this example was one guaranteed to break should it have been shipped. Add several more decades and delivery of a now ruined sign is reality. Common sense is these signs should have exchanged hands during a face-to-face transaction.
Seller has lowered the dumb bar by chiming in with unremarkable commentary.
Seller has lowered the dumb bar by chiming in with unremarkable commentary.
- Dixie Dave
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Re: What Would You Do?
My two cents- I agree with Burgiedave here. Best way to transfer these signs, if possible, would be face-to-face. I've seen plenty of vintage signs that were made of very fragile plastic. It doesn't take very much force against them to damage them. If face-to-face is impractical due to distance, and y'all aren't going to both be at Canvention or another major show, maybe you could work something out if you knew someone who was traveling near the other one's city who could transport the signs. I don't like to do much mail trading anymore because the post office is so unreliable.burgiedave wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:03 am When I owned these exact signs 24 years ago the plastic mold was fragile. Corners subject to crack or crumble, even then, this example was one guaranteed to break should it have been shipped. Add several more decades and delivery of a now ruined sign is reality. Common sense is these signs should have exchanged hands during a face-to-face transaction.
Seller has lowered the dumb bar by chiming in with unremarkable commentary.
Now to the other side of this question- if I do mail something and it arrives damaged, I will endeavor to send a replacement, or a refund if I was dealing in signs. Now I do like to pack things securely to give them a better chance of arriving safely, but accidents do happen. I think making things right is very important. Despite what we see daily in the world anymore, honesty remains the best policy.
Collector of fine rust, craft cans, and anything related to New Orleans area breweries past and present.
- bodean
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Re: What Would You Do?
I agree with the statements that these signs were fragile to begin with. Could they have been packed with more care? I don't know but I do know that most carriers do not handle cargo as I would hope and I pack accordingly. The seller was kind of cantankerous in initiating the transaction. That would have turned me off and I'd have backed off the deal but I understand wanting to have an item you've been looking for. I'm with Dixie Dave - if there is damage I would make it right regardless of fault. The seller of these signs should also.
At least you got your signs, they could have ended up in a ravine if you lived in AL... In all fairness, I've never had trouble with Fed Ex but apparently it does happen. These articles are from the last couple weeks.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/she ... s-81489053
At least you got your signs, they could have ended up in a ravine if you lived in AL... In all fairness, I've never had trouble with Fed Ex but apparently it does happen. These articles are from the last couple weeks.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/she ... s-81489053
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Re: What Would You Do?
You're being way too nice about this. The idea that you should just eat the loss and not say anything is one of the sillier things said on this forum. Absolutely out this buffoon so none of your fellow RBer's will risk the hazard of dealing with them. We have enough issues in this hobby to put up with nonsense from one of our own.
- jacoby4664
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Re: What Would You Do?
Shoot, been watching this and staying quiet, but my DNA just doesn't roll that way. If I sold the sign, and my buyer received it broken, my heart would be broken, buyer's heart notwithstanding. I wouldn't be able to credit the buyer fast enough. There, I said it.
Collector of Brewerania Since 1968
William A. Jacoby
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St Louis, MO 63117
william.a.jacoby@gmail.com
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BCCA# 373
William A. Jacoby
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william.a.jacoby@gmail.com
314-753-0616
BCCA# 373
- willssoda
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Re: What Would You Do?
Thanks for the comment. I still haven’t heard from the seller. Crazy thing is I have reached out to two members personally on this issue. Both who know the seller and both said this was typical of this person and that he is a typical $$hole. Sad…..hope I never make enemies in this hobby and if I do it wouldn’t be intentional and I would only hope the other party would contact me personally That said I have decided not to toss the seller under the bus. He’s reading the comments and if it doesn’t bother him enough to make it right then he’s not gonna change anyway.jacoby4664 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:24 pm Shoot, been watching this and staying quiet, but my DNA just doesn't roll that way. If I sold the sign, and my buyer received it broken, my heart would be broken, buyer's heart notwithstanding. I wouldn't be able to credit the buyer fast enough. There, I said it.
Interested in all flat and Cone Soda and Water cans.
- DURTBAGG
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Re: What Would You Do?
This is because you are a stand up guy Jacoby! This seller is obviously just a horses a$$ who thinks nothing of screwing fellow collectors over.jacoby4664 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:24 pm Shoot, been watching this and staying quiet, but my DNA just doesn't roll that way. If I sold the sign, and my buyer received it broken, my heart would be broken, buyer's heart notwithstanding. I wouldn't be able to credit the buyer fast enough. There, I said it.
Willssoda
I fully respect your decision to keep the sellers ID to yourself, although I’m not sure I could practice that amount of self restraint. You’re a stand up guy too!!