One Hundred J-Spouts

[StarBanner]

Thank you for sharing your collection with us. What an amazing accomplishment.

Any chance you could post some better pictures of some cans, as you did with the Fitzgerald Garryowens ...

Fitzgerald Pale Ales,

Kuebler Cream Ale oval Union vs. non-Union,

and Kuebler Beer oval with Union Made under the oval.

Also, am I correct in assuming that the only difference between the Ebling's is flat bottom vs. concave ?

Thanks in advance.

[Conehead]

Any chance you could post some better pictures of some cans, as you did with the Fitzgerald Garryowens ...

Here are some related threads that show some of what you are asking.


Unpictured J-Spout Thread
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26246&p=235073&hili ... on#p235073


The Kuebler Bock J-Spout Thread
viewtopic.php?f=276&t=37825&p=331217&hi ... on#p331217

[ThreeRing]

Nice collection Marc. Thanks for sharing it with us. I believe I have added one can to the collection a long time ago, maybe in a far away galaxy.
The Kueblers are very interesting. I dug hundreds and hundreds of them in the huge dump in Beltsville, Md in the 1980's. They were equally split between the black ribbon and non ribbon cans. Unfortunately there were no profiles, union made, or ales of any type. I never realized the ale profiles were that uncommon.
Again, thanks for the photographs.

[mtracy64]

Thank you for sharing your collection with us. What an amazing accomplishment.

Any chance you could post some better pictures of some cans, as you did with the Fitzgerald Garryowens ...

Fitzgerald Pale Ales,

Kuebler Cream Ale oval Union vs. non-Union,

and Kuebler Beer oval with Union Made under the oval.

Also, am I correct in assuming that the only difference between the Ebling's is flat bottom vs. concave ?

Thanks in advance.

Thanks! Specializing gave me some much-needed focus and made the hobby more fun.

I probably should have used the Pale Ales to more clearly show the flat bottom variations.

The Kuebler Cream Ale with the union logo photographed poorly due to rust, so I've substituted a clean Beer to clearly show the logo. The can without it is just solid gold in that area. The Beer with the black ribbon below the oval - which is there to cover up the 'Union Made' statement - comes with and without the logo right of seam, and the can with nothing below the oval has the logo right of seam. We can thank union trouble for all the variations.

Yes, the Ebling's cans are identical aside from the small height difference caused by the shape of the bottom.

Marc

[mtracy64]

Nice collection Marc. Thanks for sharing it with us. I believe I have added one can to the collection a long time ago, maybe in a far away galaxy.
The Kueblers are very interesting. I dug hundreds and hundreds of them in the huge dump in Beltsville, Md in the 1980's. They were equally split between the black ribbon and non ribbon cans. Unfortunately there were no profiles, union made, or ales of any type. I never realized the ale profiles were that uncommon.
Again, thanks for the photographs.

Thanks, Charlie. Yes, you added a rare can to the group when the group was still small - and from your shelf no less! That galaxy was so far away that nobody had begun complaining about the Ramada yet - in fact, wasn't it a Holiday Inn then?

Trying to rank the cans by rarity is a bit of a fool's game, especially after you get past the top six, but I consider the Kuebler Ale silhouette to be in the second six with Arbee, Cooper's, Gretz, Old Ox Head Ale and Trenton. I got one from the Lewandowskis right at the beginning, and if I hadn't I probably still wouldn't have it unless I had somehow finagled a shot at an indoor one. A few of the alcohol variations seem to be extremely scarce, but I've excluded them because some people don't collect them and it's possible that some are in the hands of people who picked them up for the label rather than the variation. The Fitzgerald's flat bottoms are difficult to put numbers to also, but I've had at least two of each of them except the second Garryowen, coincidentally the worst of mine.

Marc

[StarBanner]

Thank you for the extra pictures.

The Kuebler Union Made "banner" cans were mentioned in a thread here a while ago, the first I had heard of them.

Most of us have only heard about some of these rare & unusual cans so it's nice to get a good visual.

Thanks again.

[e61096]

Marc,

HOLY @#$%!!!That is one hellava
J-Spout Collection!!!

Would love to see the rest of it!!!

Bob

[StarBanner]

Without appearing greedy, just grateful, any chance of posting the statement sides of the (3) white Noch-Eins ?

It's so cool and unusual to be able to see them all together and compare.

Again, thanks in advance for your help.

[mtracy64]

Without appearing greedy, just grateful, any chance of posting the statement sides of the (3) white Noch-Eins ?

It's so cool and unusual to be able to see them all together and compare.

Again, thanks in advance for your help.

I'm happy to post additional photos. The no statement can was a big surprise the first time I saw it - I had been looking for the 3.2% variation for probably ten years without seeing one, and then the no statement can popped up on eBay and I saw four more in relatively short order. A couple years later I finally saw the 3.2% can for the first time, again on eBay. It's still the only one I've seen available.

Marc

[jacoby4664]

I recently acquired a dull Gray Noch Eins Crowntainer that is 3.2%, so we know that both the silver and dull gray Crowntainers came in both the 3.2% and 3.2 to 7% variations. Because the j spouts have 3 variations, would we not expect the Crowntainers to have three as well?

[mtracy64]

Marc,

HOLY @#$%!!!That is one hellava
J-Spout Collection!!!

Would love to see the rest of it!!!

Bob

Thanks, Bob! I like to aim high, but never in my wildest dreams would I have thought this was possible. I accidentally picked the right thing to collect at the right time - I got a few of the really tough ones right away and they just kept coming. A Hohenadel Bock comes out of a wall, an unknown can pops up, and I get first shot at both of them? You just can't make this stuff up! Truth is, this couldn't happen unless a lot of guys in the hobby wanted it to happen, and that's the best part of it.

Marc

[mtracy64]

I recently acquired a dull Gray Noch Eins Crowntainer that is 3.2%, so we know that both the silver and dull gray Crowntainers came in both the 3.2% and 3.2 to 7% variations. Because the j spouts have 3 variations, would we not expect the Crowntainers to have three as well?

I struggle with this too. After 24 years of looking and talking to people, I still can't confirm a silver Noch-Eins J-Spout with no statement, and knowing the Crowntainer remains unknown as well is doubly vexing. I've been forced to consider the possibility that it may not exist. The only reason it wouldn't exist would be if Washington stopped shipping Noch-Eins outside Ohio, and that seems like an odd thing for them to do especially being relatively close to the state line.

Marc

[StarBanner]

Love these variation close-ups.

The images of the Fitzgerald's and the Noch-Eins have been very helpful.

Can we see the sides of the (3) white Bruck's Good Old Beer.

Thanks !

[kb]

Defanately a good read about beer cans in J Spouts ! And we are lucky when Marc writes , he puts it out there first class as he is as well !
So my 1 question is - are there multi varieties of Fitz FBs or those variances are with concave ? We dump a few Burgo FB in ADKs once , mixed in were UC qwarts as well


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mtracy64]

Love these variation close-ups.

The images of the Fitzgerald's and the Noch-Eins have been very helpful.

Can we see the sides of the (3) white Bruck's Good Old Beer.

Thanks !

I had my unpictured cans shot for the BCCA online supplement 4-5 years ago, but I need to do it again - I've added several and upgraded several others.

The no statement Bruck's is by far the most obtainable. I was unaware of the 3.2 to 7% variation until a find of barn condition can perhaps a dozen years ago - the best of them had significant rust and pitting, plus smoke damage. I don't know how many were found, but it had to be a dozen or more. The can I have now was an eBay can 2-3 years ago - condition isn't great, but nicer than the cans from the find. I learned from OhioCanGuy here that he has one in similar condition that he acquired from a find of three as a youngster. The 3.2% can is the only one I've had a shot at, and I only know of one other. It came from a fellow J-Spout collector who had been inactive for a few years and decided to sell his collection. The Kuebler Beer with Union Made below the oval came from him also.

Marc

[mtracy64]

Defanately a good read about beer cans in J Spouts ! And we are lucky when Marc writes , he puts it out there first class as he is as well !
So my 1 question is - are there multi varieties of Fitz FBs or those variances are with concave ? We dump a few Burgo FB in ADKs once , mixed in were UC qwarts as well


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for the kind words, KB. I enjoy the stories behind the cans myself, so I'm happy to share mine.

Two cans I had that really bugged me were the Hohenadel Beer and the Kamm's without the copyright date. The Hohenadel is pretty common with the bottom cut out - I remember when they were all over the place in the early to mid-1990's, and I finally found an all-original can last year. I only knew of two examples of the Kamm's, both very nice, until the find of flat sheets in the mid-2000's. I finally upgraded to an all-original can when Gene put his cones up for sale, and it's also the only Stark can in the group.

I'm not aware of any variations on the concave Fitzgerald's cans. The flat bottoms are really cool cans - they feel very different from the concave cans, like they're built like a tank.

I dug a flat bottom J-Spout in the Adirondacks before I knew they existed - 1992 or 1993. It was in horrible condition, but it cleaned up enough to be able to identify it as an Ebling's Ale. We were up there for 17 days, nearly froze to death camping, ran into lots of turkey hunters, tried to dig half-frozen dumps full of Goebel cans we could have dug back home, and still managed to have the time of our lives. We didn't find anything rare, but condition was good and we came home with a minivan full of cans.

Marc

[mtracy64]

The Wacker Little Dutch is a particular favorite of mine also, and it's a story about some great cans that were nearly lost to the hobby. A non-collector in Maryland found six of them along with some Lion Ales and other cans in his crawl space. He put the cans in a box and forgot about them for eight years. He was going to throw them out when he rediscovered them, but decided to put the best one up on eBay. It's the only time I was able to outbid 'Cansnatcher'', and even at that his bid drove me up to my maximum.

Marc

[Longopener]

I actually reached 99 in 2007, though that included three different colors of the Iroquois OD - a difference I no longer collect.

Marc

In case anyone had not seen the 3 "paint variations" of the Iroquois OD Js. I bought these from Marc and sold them in a time of need. I now wish I still had them.

1) The "silver" one shows a lot more detail than in this photo and never received OD coating. It has a soup can lid for a bottom and one can assume that with the gear marks around the top rim (and the replacement J spout cone) that it was originally had a similar "soup can" lid on the top, presumably used by an automotive or canned foods.

2) This is the more traditional-looking OD Iroquois that shows up (mostly under show polish or other paper labels of additives - sorry if I am misstating the actual paper labels). This is "the most common" of the Iroquois J spouts.

3) This variation has what could be considered "a ton" of OD coating, where you can actually see the layers of thick OD applied. This would be more akin to what you'd expect on a military water can or Army vehicle. It's NOT years of gunk or buildup,,, it's actual OD paint as opposed to the almost "candy apple" OD coating seen on can #2. I believe Marc stated another time that this can would look much like #2 if someone "cleaned it" by polishing it up...effectively removing the OD paint that was applied. Apologies to Marc if I misstated any of the above. If I did, contact me and I'll edit my submission as to not put out bad information.

[mtracy64]

I actually reached 99 in 2007, though that included three different colors of the Iroquois OD - a difference I no longer collect.

Marc

In case anyone had not seen the 3 "paint variations" of the Iroquois OD Js. I bought these from Marc and sold them in a time of need. I now wish I still had them.

1) The "silver" one shows a lot more detail than in this photo and never received OD coating. It has a soup can lid for a bottom and one can assume that with the gear marks around the top rim (and the replacement J spout cone) that it was originally had a similar "soup can" lid on the top, presumably used by an automotive or canned foods.

2) This is the more traditional-looking OD Iroquois that shows up (mostly under show polish or other paper labels of additives - sorry if I am misstating the actual paper labels). This is "the most common" of the Iroquois J spouts.

3) This variation has what could be considered "a ton" of OD coating, where you can actually see the layers of thick OD applied. This would be more akin to what you'd expect on a military water can or Army vehicle. It's NOT years of gunk or buildup,,, it's actual OD paint as opposed to the almost "candy apple" OD coating seen on can #2. I believe Marc stated another time that this can would look much like #2 if someone "cleaned it" by polishing it up...effectively removing the OD paint that was applied. Apologies to Marc if I misstated any of the above. If I did, contact me and I'll edit my submission as to not put out bad information.

Iroquois OD Js.JPG

It's a shame neither one of us got better photos of these, though I do have a shot of the bottom lid on the first one. It doesn't show well in the photos, but it's a high-gloss metallic silver like the oddball WF Valley Forge OI, but with heavy humidity. The Blatz and Iroquois are usually found under paper label shoe polish labels, but I would guess this one was used as a food can based on the lid - I suppose it could have been anything, though. The last one doesn't show well in photos either, but it's very different from the color usually seen - very much an olive color, whereas these typically look more like gold than olive. I'd definitely replace mine with one in that color given the chance. Heck, I might even keep all three again, but it would feel like padding the numbers to include them in the count.

Marc

[OctoberAle]

Great collection Marc. So, I'm curious about your 10 oz Tru Blu cans...I know you had them in the past, sold them, etc. What is the provenance of your current pair?

[mtracy64]

Great collection Marc. So, I'm curious about your 10 oz Tru Blu cans...I know you had them in the past, sold them, etc. What is the provenance of your current pair?

Thanks, Steve. Both of them were found in ceilings in Virginia. The Ale was found in the late 1990's by a non-collector. Steve Gordon acquired it and listed it on eBay - I hadn't met him yet, but I won the can and met him shortly thereafter. I sold the can to Cansnatcher, and it went through Beer Cans Plus to Mr. Synko who later sold it back to me. It has serious problems on the side, but the silver on the face is better than the other two indoor examples I've seen. The Beer was found by a carpenter on 4-20-15 and went through Dan Morean to Gene Judd, just in time for me to snag it on day one when Gene put his cans up for sale in July, 2015. Below is a link to a discussion here which the carpenter started.

https://www.therustybunch.com/phpBB3/vi ... 94&t=35812

Marc

[OctoberAle]

Thanks Marc,
OK, I am familiar with the Ale can, having seen it firsthand in Indy, and now I do recall some of the circumstances around the beer. I love those cans.
Steve

[mtracy64]

Thanks Marc,
OK, I am familiar with the Ale can, having seen it firsthand in Indy, and now I do recall some of the circumstances around the beer. I love those cans.
Steve

I love Tru Blu in general, so you can imagine how special that pair is! The Ale makes one wonder why that label wasn't used on flat tops, and I've always wondered why Tru Blu didn't return in cans after the war.

Marc

[ConeAddict]

100 of 102, that is amazing, thanks for sharing those photos. Those Tru Blu 10 Oz cans are killer, I didn't realize they were 2 sided.

[mtracy64]

100 of 102, that is amazing, thanks for sharing those photos. Those Tru Blu 10 Oz cans are killer, I didn't realize they were 2 sided.

Thanks, Tim. It would be 101 of 102 if I had been prepared to weather a financial crash instead of basically running headlong off a cliff. Here's what I had in 2007 - 99 including the three Iroquois discussed above. Note that I had the Bruck's Jubilee I'm missing now. I've added four I was missing and upgraded 35 or so, but four indoor cans were replaced with dumpers and two others went from grade 1 to 2+, plus the Pilser's Half and Half went from nice dumper to so-so. Some things can only be learned the hard way.

Surprisingly few are two-sided - the Bruck's Jubilees, the three Pilser's, the Southern Select and the Tru Blus are it.

Marc

[Longopener]

I just found these higher detail shots of the "gold" looking OD and the "dull" OD paints.

[StarBanner]

It's nice to see this educational & informative thread continuing.

I'm sure many of us continue to appreciate you guys posting these amazing pictures.

I am also enjoying the stories that go along with the images.

Mr. Tracy, I see what appears to be a Cooper's Old Bohemian on your shelf.

I've only been aware of the quarts. What's the scoop on the J ? Is it rare, how many known ?

Also, what's the story on the Honer's J. I know it come in hi-profile but I was surprised to see a J.

It would be nice to see a good picture of the Cooper's & Honer's, if you don't mind.

One more thing. There is a picture floating around the internet of a Fritz Brew J-spout. Since it is not on your composite list, may I assume it is just an improperly lidded lo-pro ?

Great thread, thanks again.

[jacoby4664]

It's nice to see this educational & informative thread continuing.

I'm sure many of us continue to appreciate you guys posting these amazing pictures.

I am also enjoying the stories that go along with the images.

Mr. Tracy, I see what appears to be a Cooper's Old Bohemian on your shelf.

I've only been aware of the quarts. What's the scoop on the J ? Is it rare, how many known ?

Also, what's the story on the Honer's J. I know it come in hi-profile but I was surprised to see a J.

It would be nice to see a good picture of the Cooper's & Honer's, if you don't mind.

One more thing. There is a picture floating around the internet of a Fritz Brew J-spout. Since it is not on your composite list, may I assume it is just an improperly lidded lo-pro ?

Great thread, thanks again.

The Coopers Old Bohemian also came in a Crowntainer

[mtracy64]

It's nice to see this educational & informative thread continuing.

I'm sure many of us continue to appreciate you guys posting these amazing pictures.

I am also enjoying the stories that go along with the images.

Mr. Tracy, I see what appears to be a Cooper's Old Bohemian on your shelf.

I've only been aware of the quarts. What's the scoop on the J ? Is it rare, how many known ?

Also, what's the story on the Honer's J. I know it come in hi-profile but I was surprised to see a J.

It would be nice to see a good picture of the Cooper's & Honer's, if you don't mind.

One more thing. There is a picture floating around the internet of a Fritz Brew J-spout. Since it is not on your composite list, may I assume it is just an improperly lidded lo-pro ?

Great thread, thanks again.

Thanks. It has been a long time since I wrote at length on anything, but I've always enjoyed doing so.

I listed the Cooper's as being among a group I consider the "second six" as far as rarity of the major label variations. I'd lean towards the Gretz and Cooper's being the toughest of those six if I had to guess, and that would put them right behind the Silver Dime. A PA collector who calls himself "digger" here dug a Cooper's in 2007 or 2008, and that was only the sixth example I knew of. All were dumpers, and none were in great condition. In 2009, "digger" contacted me because two were found under the floor boards of a house. The better of the two was available, but I was in no position to buy. Two photos of that can are below - I didn't receive a photo of the side panel right of seam, so my can is shown too.

The Honer's isn't hard to find in dumper condition, but only two indoor examples are known and both have problems. The Michigan collectors have been calling this the best one since I got back in the hobby in the late 1980's and, interestingly, it lived less than a mile from me then. Ted Larsen bought that collection long ago, and the can went through two prominent Michigan collections before I got it 6-7 years ago.

The Fritz Brew was simply re-lidded incorrectly, and the lid actually isn't a J-Spout - it looks sort of like one because Chuck Foster tried to make suitable lids to put on the Fehr's mugs when they turned up in huge quantity. That Fritz Brew variation is still shown in the BCCA online supplement, but it's listed as "Delisted".

Marc