Dans Auction - May 23

[Clarkston1]

Some great cans in this May auction.

The Eagle Conetop really caught my eye. I’ve never seen an example before and I would except it to be one of the higher priced cans at the end.
I look forward to seeing the action on these auctions, it really is entertaining even if not participating.

[mtracy64]

I've seen a couple clean examples of the El Rey version of the Eagle cone in person, and photos don't do the can justice even aside from Dan's knack for muting colors and exaggerating every flaw. It's difficult to evaluate the Albion Brewing Co. version of the can because this is the only known indoor example, and we've seen how variations can impact results. Even ignoring the variation, though, I think the Edel Brau Ale is the only can in the auction with the potential to keep pace with the Eagle.

Bidding has been so volatile in these auctions that "intended participation" and "actual participation" have been very different things for me since the middle of last year. For example, I see one can has already achieved or exceeded what I consider full market value - glad I'm not after that one! I do hope to participate on at least one, though.

The auctions are still great fun to watch, though there are too many of them now to justify the time required to watch them in their entirety.

Marc

[Clarkston1]

The Edelbrau Ale in Dans auction is a great can and I think it should certainly generate a lot of interest $$ although it seems like I remember the Ale and Beer being offered by Dan some years ago and the pair selling for maybe 2 to 3 thousand each?
Maybe a little more than that, can’t remember.

I’m comfortable with my example even though it is very off-grade and although I like the Edelbrau Beer I’ve got my sights on another can!

[mtracy64]

The Edelbrau Ale in Dans auction is a great can and I think it should certainly generate a lot of interest $$ although it seems like I remember the Ale and Beer being offered by Dan some years ago and the pair selling for maybe 2 to 3 thousand each?
Maybe a little more than that, can’t remember.

I’m comfortable with my example even though it is very off-grade and although I like the Edelbrau Beer I’ve got my sights on another can!

I'm not aware of another sale of an Ale or Beer, besides your Ale, since the Lewandowskis sold theirs for $9,000 and $6,000 about 20 years ago. The pair Dan's offering now are the Lewandowski cans. I only know of three examples of the Ale - in fact, it was widely believed there were only two until you scored yours. I expect the Eagle will outdo the rest of the field by a wide margin, but I think the Ale has the potential to stay close. It remains to be seen whether it will reach its potential, though. The Edelbrau cans don't seem to be talked about much, but that could be due to the fact that they're so rarely seen. Photos don't do them justice either. I'd like to have them, but they're not really in my wheelhouse and I'm unlikely to spend more than it would take to get them in condition similar to yours. My focus is on recouping a can I sold Joe Pacz years ago, plus I might take a stab at a J-Spout or two if they don't get crazy.

Marc

[mtracy64]

Huh, a quick flurry of activity and suddenly the Red Lion Ale and Kings Head Ale both sit at $10K with over a week still to go. The same Red Lion can sold for $9,690 - including vig - last April, so I figured the seller would take a bit of a loss on it selling it so quickly. But, condition and desirability are through the roof. The Kings Head is very rare and very desirable, but few HP cones reach five figures. I thought it possible, but I'm surprised to see it happen so early in the proceedings.

Marc

[ConeAddict]

Huh, a quick flurry of activity and suddenly the Red Lion Ale and Kings Head Ale both sit at $10K with over a week still to go. The same Red Lion can sold for $9,690 - including vig - last April, so I figured the seller would take a bit of a loss on it selling it so quickly. But, condition and desirability are through the roof. The Kings Head is very rare and very desirable, but few HP cones reach five figures. I thought it possible, but I'm surprised to see it happen so early in the proceedings.

Marc

Was the Red Lion Ale a Gene Judd can? I noticed it sold last year too but was wondering if maybe it was a consignment can that didn't make reserve. I don't think Dan removes them from the auction results anymore, probably to try to stop us from bringing up that policy after every auction. I thought about taking a shot at it because like you thought maybe it would go for less and that is a holy grail for me. But I am out, never really expected to have a chance. I started a thread a few years ago on high pros that would go for large $, not sure I have seen one at 5 figures before.

[mtracy64]

Huh, a quick flurry of activity and suddenly the Red Lion Ale and Kings Head Ale both sit at $10K with over a week still to go. The same Red Lion can sold for $9,690 - including vig - last April, so I figured the seller would take a bit of a loss on it selling it so quickly. But, condition and desirability are through the roof. The Kings Head is very rare and very desirable, but few HP cones reach five figures. I thought it possible, but I'm surprised to see it happen so early in the proceedings.

Marc

Was the Red Lion Ale a Gene Judd can? I noticed it sold last year too but was wondering if maybe it was a consignment can that didn't make reserve. I don't think Dan removes them from the auction results anymore, probably to try to stop us from bringing up that policy after every auction. I thought about taking a shot at it because like you thought maybe it would go for less and that is a holy grail for me. But I am out, never really expected to have a chance. I started a thread a few years ago on high pros that would go for large $, not sure I have seen one at 5 figures before.

I'm not sure if the Red Lion was Gene's. The can in the photos I have from 2015 didn't have such vivid red, but the can in the 2019 photos does. I can't zoom in much before the photo starts to pixelate, but I don't see the little white spot in "D" and it seems like I would. Either way, the numbered tags on the bottom of the cans identify the consignees and the 23 is on a number of the Ohio cans. I don't know who the other consignees are, but Joe Pacz's are labeled 146 and Gene's cans haven't been labeled (presumably because they're Dan's cans now). The concave Red Lion is really scarce, but the flat bottom exists in decent numbers - the price is based more on desirability than rarity.

The National Bohemian Bock, the 76 Ale with the eagle top face and the oddball Leisy test/prototype can went five figures at auction, and I know a couple of unique Schlitz test/prototype HP's sold in five figures (not at auction). I can't think of any others that I know of, but I'd be shocked if Gene's pair of English Lads didn't. I can think of perhaps ten more I think might get close, but a few of them are unknown in high enough grade to get there.

Marc

[ConeAddict]

Thanks, I didn't even notice the stickers that is good to know. The Red Lion Ale is a really amazing can even by prewar standards, there seems to be a lot off grade examples just one of those cans I wouldn't want a faded or rusty can. That one is really sweet.

I forgot about the Natty Bock that is an obvious high priced high pro. I swear I saw the tougher of those 76 cones on ebay and it didn't go for anywhere near that but I could be mistaken, not really familiar with those cans.

[mtracy64]

The Red Lion Ale in the auction is in exceptional condition, but decent indoor cans are out there. If you Google "red lion ale can" and click on 'images', you'll see half a dozen indoor cans at the top of the page, and none of them are the auction can or the can shown in the BCCA supplement. I don't recall how many of which turned up in the FBIR flat sheet find, but there are at least a couple pristine rolled examples out there as well. If a well-funded collector set out to chase the FBIR cans, it would certainly be one of the first ten found even if one of the highest priced.

Yeah, the Bock can is a Bock can first and an HP cone second. I've only seen the one real good example of the oddball 76 Ale, but I first saw it 25 years ago and was at least aware of it as something to pay attention to since then. That label would have made a nice match for the Champagne Velvet J-Spout . . .

Marc

[ConeAddict]

Yeah I know there are more than just a handful of the Red Lions but how many on grade examples would you guess there are? 20? 50? If it is closer to the former that is still a pretty tough early can to get in good condition. Doing a quick search this one is the only on grade example sold in the dealer auctions so far, the don't seem to pop free very often but I don't get out to shows as much as a lot of you guys here. Like a lot of early cans the red paint didn't hold up very well so there are lot of examples that look indoor but are still offgrade.

[mtracy64]

There have to be 10 -12 really good Red Lion Ales out there, and at least a couple more closer to grade 1. As you noted, there are also a good number at grade 1- or lower due to fade, larger scratches, etc.

Marc

[mtracy64]

I've been pondering the Kings Head Ale of late, and I wonder what we collectively know about it. I've heard since the mid-1990's that there are "5 or 6 really nice" examples. The two I've seen in person were in phenomenal condition - A1+ with clean spouts and lids, and my understanding was that the others were in similar condition. I would generally assume there's one in Cincinnati also, though it could be one of the two mentioned above since both collections have sold.

The auction can and the Rich Bickle can Ted sold for $7,000 in 2015 have some spotting and have lost most of the gold on the spout, and Thor pictures a can courtesy of Matt at Boston Beer Cans - the photo is terrible, but the can clearly has light spotting on the label and a somewhat larger spot left of the king while retaining the gold on the spout.

The only others I know of are two eBay cans - a dumper that sold several years ago, and a more recent sale that I don't have a clear memory of - definitely offgrade, but not sure about indoor vs. outdoor.

So, here are the things I wonder about:

- Does anybody have specific knowledge of any finds?

- Is it possible that the three cans with spotting mentioned above are separate from the "5 or 6" I've been told of? It is possible that the cans could have deteriorated over the decades, and it's also possible that the quality of some of the cans was not remembered correctly despite the information coming from collectors who were very conscious of condition

- Does a DNCMT 3.2% variation exist?

Thanks,

Marc

[OhioCanGuy]

I've been pondering the Kings Head Ale of late, and I wonder what we collectively know about it. I've heard since the mid-1990's that there are "5 or 6 really nice" examples. The two I've seen in person were in phenomenal condition - A1+ with clean spouts and lids, and my understanding was that the others were in similar condition. I would generally assume there's one in Cincinnati also, though it could be one of the two mentioned above since both collections have sold.

The auction can and the Rich Bickle can Ted sold for $7,000 in 2015 have some spotting and have lost most of the gold on the spout, and Thor pictures a can courtesy of Matt at Boston Beer Cans - the photo is terrible, but the can clearly has light spotting on the label and a somewhat larger spot left of the king while retaining the gold on the spout.

The only others I know of are two eBay cans - a dumper that sold several years ago, and a more recent sale that I don't have a clear memory of - definitely offgrade, but not sure about indoor vs. outdoor.

So, here are the things I wonder about:

- Does anybody have specific knowledge of any finds?

- Is it possible that the three cans with spotting mentioned above are separate from the "5 or 6" I've been told of? It is possible that the cans could have deteriorated over the decades, and it's also possible that the quality of some of the cans was not remembered correctly despite the information coming from collectors who were very conscious of condition

- Does a DNCMT 3.2% variation exist?

Thanks,

Marc

Marc,

Not exactly the answer to your question, but some more insight into this label.

Over that past 5-10 years. I've handled a couple of these and seriously looked at probably three more online. They almost always seen to have a questionable cone on them. Truly looks repro. Sort of a thin aluminum or tin type of material. The most recent of which was at the Great Lakes show a few years ago and presented by Jeff Musser. He and I discussed the lid issue and he was rather uncertain himself. Eventually, after the show, he found someone that, in his words, didn't care if the cone was original or not and bought it.

To my eye, the one in the Morean auction looks very original.

Not really sure if some were produced with a somewhat odd cone/lid variation back in the day, or, perhaps, there was a find of unlided cans years ago and someone lidded them all with reproduction cones.

[mtracy64]

I've been pondering the Kings Head Ale of late, and I wonder what we collectively know about it. I've heard since the mid-1990's that there are "5 or 6 really nice" examples. The two I've seen in person were in phenomenal condition - A1+ with clean spouts and lids, and my understanding was that the others were in similar condition. I would generally assume there's one in Cincinnati also, though it could be one of the two mentioned above since both collections have sold.

The auction can and the Rich Bickle can Ted sold for $7,000 in 2015 have some spotting and have lost most of the gold on the spout, and Thor pictures a can courtesy of Matt at Boston Beer Cans - the photo is terrible, but the can clearly has light spotting on the label and a somewhat larger spot left of the king while retaining the gold on the spout.

The only others I know of are two eBay cans - a dumper that sold several years ago, and a more recent sale that I don't have a clear memory of - definitely offgrade, but not sure about indoor vs. outdoor.

So, here are the things I wonder about:

- Does anybody have specific knowledge of any finds?

- Is it possible that the three cans with spotting mentioned above are separate from the "5 or 6" I've been told of? It is possible that the cans could have deteriorated over the decades, and it's also possible that the quality of some of the cans was not remembered correctly despite the information coming from collectors who were very conscious of condition

- Does a DNCMT 3.2% variation exist?

Thanks,

Marc

Marc,

Not exactly the answer to your question, but some more insight into this label.

Over that past 5-10 years. I've handled a couple of these and seriously looked at probably three more online. They almost always seen to have a questionable cone on them. Truly looks repro. Sort of a thin aluminum or tin type of material. The most recent of which was at the Great Lakes show a few years ago and presented by Jeff Musser. He and I discussed the lid issue and he was rather uncertain himself. Eventually, after the show, he found someone that, in his words, didn't care if the cone was original or not and bought it.

To my eye, the one in the Morean auction looks very original.

Not really sure if some were produced with a somewhat odd cone/lid variation back in the day, or, perhaps, there was a find of unlided cans years ago and someone lidded them all with reproduction cones.

Bob,

Thanks. General insight was the primary goal, and I obviously had no idea to ask a question relating to what you've brought up. It seems extraordinary to have seen five of them in ten years also - perhaps there are more than generally believed.

Marc

[mtracy64]

Best $320 I ever spent, apparently.

http://bcca-usbc-supplement.com/Volume1 ... ew=1154268

[Clarkston1]

Eagle and Edelbrau Ale finished on the high end of my expectation but I think someone got a nice deal on the Edelbrau Beer!

[nocheins]

Please see attached for photos of my Kings Head. I have not noticed this cone to be any different from my other cones.
-I'm aware of one other in the Columbus area (since sold?), and about 3-4 more out there in grade one condition.
-I've also seen three dumpers in various conditions;
-Just the one variation- over 3.2%
-Marketed briefly in late '41-early '42 in cans; started around '37 -'42 in bottles;
-No finds at all...waited for years for some to fall out of an old wall;
-My can was originally owned by Keith Byers in the 70's. Still has his sticker on the bottom.
-Obtained years ago from the good guys.

It's an absolutely gorgeous can that has pop and rarity. Honestly the sale price blows my mind. It's half of what I paid for my survivor '72 Challenger about 12 years ago.

[mtracy64]

I figured the Eagle would get up around $20K - now I just wonder whether the variation drove the price, or if any Eagle in that condition would bring that money. The Edelbrau Beer was a steal.

Marc

[mtracy64]

Please see attached for photos of my Kings Head. I have not noticed this cone to be any different from my other cones.
-I'm aware of one other in the Columbus area (since sold?), and about 3-4 more out there in grade one condition.
-I've also seen three dumpers in various conditions;
-Just the one variation- over 3.2%
-Marketed briefly in late '41-early '42 in cans; started around '37 -'42 in bottles;
-No finds at all...waited for years for some to fall out of an old wall;
-My can was originally owned by Keith Byers in the 70's. Still has his sticker on the bottom.
-Obtained years ago from the good guys.

It's an absolutely gorgeous can that has pop and rarity. Honestly the sale price blows my mind. It's half of what I paid for my survivor '72 Challenger about 12 years ago.

Great can, and I appreciate the information. The late 1941 introduction would account for the rarity, and I can see why a small company might not do multiple versions of their product. The can really does stand out as being exquisite, even when seen in the finest collections of cones.

Dan's cans always look better in person, and a previous owner contacted me and told me that the auction can is much nicer than it looks in photos. The price is certainly a large number, but if it is too much it certainly isn't as egregious as many of the auction results from the past several months.

Marc

[Clarkston1]

I figured the Eagle would get up around $20K - now I just wonder whether the variation drove the price, or if any Eagle in that condition would bring that money. The Edelbrau Beer was a steal.

Marc

I’m already regretting not putting a serious bid in for the Edelbrau Beer, but I went for the Michigan and Tampa route.
Picked up these two, nothing to look at graphically but the Schmidt’s is a neat piece of Michigan brewery history, the last gasp of the brewery before they threw in the towel and sold out to E&B.
Old Milwaukee is from Tampa and needed this for my Tampa collection.

[mtracy64]

It's an accomplishment to get anything for a reasonable price in these auctions anymore. The best I could do on an ongrade can was first loser, but regaining my former Schultz Beer was my primary objective and I was willing to go quite a bit higher if need be. I bought the can in 2001 and sold it to Joe Pacz several years later. It's been near the top of my list since I started buying again, and it's always nice to bring a lost child back home. The Old Dutch Ale was Joe's too, and I think it went very reasonably. It almost looks like the grey one in Dan's photos, but it's the tougher silver one.

Marc

[Clarkston1]

It's an accomplishment to get anything for a reasonable price in these auctions anymore. The best I could do on an ongrade can was first loser, but regaining my former Schultz Beer was my primary objective and I was willing to go quite a bit higher if need be. I bought the can in 2001 and sold it to Joe Pacz several years later. It's been near the top of my list since I started buying again, and it's always nice to bring a lost child back home. The Old Dutch Ale was Joe's too, and I think it went very reasonably. It almost looks like the grey one in Dan's photos, but it's the tougher silver one.

Marc


5-23-21.JPG

I keep telling myself to only concentrate on the early pre war flats and maybe just 3 or 4 purchases every year and I end up getting distracted and not staying the coarse.
Looking at your pick-ups I know I need to really try and follow this strategy.
Great cans!!

[mtracy64]

It's an accomplishment to get anything for a reasonable price in these auctions anymore. The best I could do on an ongrade can was first loser, but regaining my former Schultz Beer was my primary objective and I was willing to go quite a bit higher if need be. I bought the can in 2001 and sold it to Joe Pacz several years later. It's been near the top of my list since I started buying again, and it's always nice to bring a lost child back home. The Old Dutch Ale was Joe's too, and I think it went very reasonably. It almost looks like the grey one in Dan's photos, but it's the tougher silver one.

Marc


5-23-21.JPG

I keep telling myself to only concentrate on the early pre war flats and maybe just 3 or 4 purchases every year and I end up getting distracted and not staying the coarse.
Looking at your pick-ups I know I need to really try and follow this strategy.
Great cans!!

Thanks. The groups of flats I collect include so many rarities that I'd never get anywhere if I didn't maintain focus. I'm basically hunting the groups of flats that I found most difficult to break into when selling the majority of my flats to go after the tougher J-Spouts that kept coming up years ago - primarily the earliest cans by each of the four can companies, though I've allowed the "cans I just like" group to expand a little and added (most) IRTP goats despite the fact that they would fit that group. I actually do have a post-war can and covet a couple others, but the 1930's graphics are what excite me.

Dan's got a method for photographing/processing metallic cans which removes all glare, but it also sucks some of the life out of the colors and magnifies flaws. The Old Dutch has a different type of humidity damage than most cans - I don't have a real good feel for how it will look in hand, but the price was right even if it looks just like the photos. I know exactly what the Schultz is going to look like, though. Here's a photo I took when I owned it - this magnifies the flaws too, but not as much. I was afraid it might go stupid after watching the one go over $18K recently, but it was only 25% less when I bought it 20 years ago. Now to find an Ale . . .

Marc

[mtracy64]

A 1983 article by Dave Stark on Schultz Brewing Co., courtesy of Randy Karasek's BMV. Dave was a geologist, but he was also a trained historian who applied that skill to his hobby and wrote some of the finest articles to appear in print. I recalled that he wrote about Schultz, but did not recall the dates for canning line installation or the appearance of the cans on the market. The Beer doesn't carry any Crown Can Co. markings, though, so I knew it was very early. The flat bottom J-Spouts - aside from Ebling's Ale, a few Monarch Brewing Co. cans, the paper label Ebling's cones and possibly Golden Armor are the other early Crown Can Co. cans with no Crown Can information.

Marc

[mtracy64]

USPS got my package to me in two days, but I did have some heart palpitations upon seeing the state it was in. Fortunately the cans are fine, and the Old Dutch Ale looks as good as I could have hoped for.

Marc

[Summitcan]

He hates these cans
... Nothing better than getting an old can back

[mtracy64]

He hates these cans
... Nothing better than getting an old can back

Especially one so rare and sold under duress. It helped a lot that it went to a good friend and a New Jersey guy, but the latter point made eventual recovery seem very unlikely. The New Jersey guys rag on each other pretty good on occasion, and one of my most enduring memories of Joe Pacz is the look on his face when he pulled the Schultz and the Trenton J-Spout he had just gotten from me out in response to one of the guys rubbing his nose in some Ballantine's variation he had just scored.

Marc

[OctoberAle]

It's rare when I participate in an auction, and more rare when I come away with a can like this.

[jacoby4664]

Very Nice can. If I wasn’t a Crowntainers only collector, this can and the Ale would both have been on top of the list.

[mtracy64]

There's a photo of an Edelbrau which actually does the can some justice by capturing some of the depth in the color. Those cans really stand out on the shelf, but tend to look lifeless in photos. It's nice to see it go to a friend so reasonably, especially one who has always shown a great affinity for New York City cans - they have no equal.

Marc