Open Letter to the BCCA - Why I am not a member

[Randy Karasek]

Finally back from a GREAT Milwaukee canvention! Everything was well organized, hotel was perfect, trade floor was amazing, had a chance to catch up with many long time collecting friends, as well as met some new. I was very impressed at the private party and absolutely loved being able to attend.

I chatted with a handful of BCCA officers, and was asked the same question multiple times, why are you a "guest, not a BCCA member"? While the BCCA throws one hell of a private party, there is nothing else that the BCCA provides that the RB does not do better, cheaper, and more in lines with the way I want to be involved with this hobby.

The following is an "Open Letter to the BCCA". Not intended as insults or flames. Simply an open letter from a former member whom has no plans on rejoining, and my reasons why. There are many awesome BCCA officers/members that I respect greatly, but the BCCA as an "organization" is badly broken. I know that many collectors agree with many of my comments, because I actually talk to them AND LISTEN.

The comments in this open letter have not been endorsed by the Rusty Bunch, and I have hosted content on my personal website. I am simply using the RB as the open forum since the BCCA itself has none. This is my last attempt to get the "powers that be" in the BCCA to actually DO SOMETHING, to want to retain members, pull back former members, and attract new collectors.

http://www.mbcinfo.com/OpenBCCALetter.pdf

[Indianbeer]

I happen to agree with the majority of what you speak of Randy. I am not a member of BCCA or ECBA, I am a member of NABA only because I collect breweriana, more than cans. Yes I know, the BCCA changed its name to include breweriana, but lets face it, they are still a can driven club. I personally would like to see just 1 major club, such as ABA, BCCA and NABA coming together!!! I love what ABA has done in Potosi with the brewery museum, so why not all join forces and create one large club and put all support into 1 national club? Plus, it would be 1 convention instead of three or four if you include the ECBA.

I agree, in today's era of computer, ipads and iwatches, its time to streamline to the internet. Everything, I mean everything can be done via the web. Updates, news, etc. Its time to embrace technology.

With that being said, I for one can operate the technology but that's about it. I think they need someone very knowledgeable to head that up, which might be you Randy???? You seem to know a lot about technology so why not volunteer your time and get them started in the right direction????? Well, maybe they will not let you or they are not open to it, but I think its about time the BCCA changes not continue down the same path.

I hope they embrace your letter and start to move in a positive direction to win back former members, maintain the current members and real in the new members.

Like Randy said, just my thoughts.

[Barry Travis]

Being my first Canvention, I gave these subjects (and more) some thought during my 5 hr. drive home. I sure agree with your letter-there seems to be a division of "this is the way it's always been done" and folks who know and thrive on the digital side. I look at my huge pile of magazines from ABA,NABA and the BCCA and wonder why I keep them (for the great articles and info) but to have access via the computer or phone? With the ability to search BY KEYWORD for a brand, last name or subject?? And save me hours of time flipping through pages?

It's do-able. Necessary. A terrific and useful idea.

Another thought I had is to have an area that says "I AM AN EXPERT IN:" where you could fill out things like-Esslinger....cab lights...canning codes...ball knobs. Even if you AREN'T the expert, you know more than 95% of the population and can be tapped or contacted for an article, question or information. LOOK AT ALL THE STUFF THAT GETS COMMENTED ON OR ANSWERED HERE ON A DAILY BASIS.

And a union of 3 organizations? Genius. Would I attend THAT annual gathering? (expletive deleted) YES!

I realize that there are all sorts of power struggles, officers,old boy networks and politics that may make it impossible,but what an organization it would be. And what a convention.

I'd better get to work now....great letter,Randy.

[zoinkss]

I have been a member on and off in the BCCA when appropriate. I appreciate the work that has been done over the years and very much appreciate everything anyone does to promote and enjoy this hobby.

That said, the average collector will go where the information and fellowship are the most prevalent.
The sharing on RB and the open fellowship is beyond anything in any other group I have ever seen.
Locally we have the Badger Bunch but we don't get together that often. When my father died, a few guys like Specks, Dartmaster and myself got together once in a while to tip a glass and remember old days. As I was selling and buying cans to replace those sold in my father's estate, I started finding other guys locally who were pulling out their cans they found in the attic. Some of these guys had previously been BCCA members.

Over the last 8 years we are about 26 guys on our meet up list that go to each others houses once a month and see each other's collections, tip a few beers, talk about hunting, cars, family and, oh yeah,,, beer cans (signs,trays & other beer stuff).
This little group is pretty close and share knowledge without asking for anything in return. Very much like we did in the 70s.

During the off years of can collecting, I feel the BCCA got too business like and lost that sharing and brotherhood feeling for the masses.
With Rusty Bunch that feeling and sharing is as high a bar as you can set.
Like the group we have locally who mostly don't belong to any group but love beer and beer related items, RB gives us a place to share, help and just hang out with like minded people. The BCCA is still in the business phase and is slowly turning the corner in the attempt to be both a business as well as a brotherhood.

In order to keep a International Level of Collectors coming every year to a International show, the BCCA has to be run like a business BUT, that does not mean you have to give up the fellowship and sharing. I see the BCCA slowly going the route of RB and adding back in the local guys getting together and the sharing of information. After speaking with several BCCA Board members as well, they seem like they are taking to heart the needs of the collectors.

One of the BCCA Board members is local to Milwaukee and he joined our little group of guys who meet up and has seen first hand how much fun it is to go back to the days of monthly meetups and in person sharing of collections. Over the next few years I think you will see a positive change in the BCCA.
That is mostly because of the HUGE success of Rusty Bunch. RB has really shown how much we can grow if we openly share and enjoy the hobby.

After the show in Milwaukee,,,,, a HUGE success..... I am attempting to plan a trip to Portland next year for the big show.

Hope to see you all there!!

[keithker]

Randy.....thanks for taking the time to identify those issues that could help make some significant changes and garner a greater interest in the BCCA. During the BCCA business meeting it was addressed that membership numbers were dropping and ways were needed to find out how to get new people interested in the hobby and keep those that were members to retain/renew their membership. I think some of your ideas and suggestions will help the BCCA understand how to focus on some of the current shortfalls. I'm not sure I missed it but there was no banner at the airport that could have made others that would happen to be in the city during the same period aware of the event occurring in Milwaukee at the time. I flew in the Friday before so one might have be placed up later. I also agree with you that one way of drawing greater interest into the hobby is to make it more open and not a financial question when having a simple curiosity into exactly what the event or hobby is all about. Man always has an interest in adding something to the mancave or maybe even establishing a new mancave. It shouldn't cost him a whole lot of money to see if there is something he might have never known about. Compared to the Dallas show last year, this years show in Milwaukee was amazing and I look forward to Portland next year. Hopefully some of your ideas and suggestions can help improve the participation.

[Scott]

I sent a similar letter to the BCCA and posted it here several years ago. My complaint however dealt with the apparent unwillingness of the BCCA to have Canventions anywhere near the west coast. Fast forward a few years and the BCCA is coming to Portland. I don't harbor any illusions that my letter contributed significantly to that happening, but I was one of many vocal voices and the BCCA to their credit did listen. I sent in my dues the other day and restarted my membership.

The BCCA operates like many churches. I call it indecision by committee. Just about the time they come to some sort of consensus, the committee makeup changes and they have to start all over. I'm not sure that will ever change but if it does I encourage you to be willing to reconsider your position on membership.

[jomama]

You are way too nice, Randy

[jomama]

Randy.....thanks for taking the time to identify those issues that could help make some significant changes and garner a greater interest in the BCCA. During the BCCA business meeting it was addressed that membership numbers were dropping and ways were needed to find out how to get new people interested in the hobby and keep those that were members to retain/renew their membership.

New people interested in the hobby????? There are 100's of thousands of beer hobbyists worldwide. (I added 22 new beer can collectors to the hobby just in the past week). The BCCA is a minuscule part of the 'brewery collectibles' hobby. I am not bashing the BCCA volunteers... They do a great job and I know how tough it is to be a volunteer . It's the organization's bureaucracy that has it's head up it's butt. If you want to increase membership, Drop the dues to 10 bucks a year! It can be done in this 'digital' age we live in.

[idigrust]

Yep, drop dues for those that want downloadable content and make Canvention trade floor open for $10.00 every day (not the hospitality or that stuff, just trade floor). Welcome folks with a smile ! Have ALL newsletters downloadable (or hosted on the BCCA site with Randy's nifty software). Promote in all brewery related publications. HAVE STUFF DOWNLOADABLE ! and last but not least HAVE STUFF DOWNLOADALBLE !!!!!!! did I mention HAVE STUFF DOWNLOADABLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jomama]

Downloadable?

[idigrust]

Downloadable?

There's an idea !!!!

[Sea Monkey]

How about 3 levels of membership with 3 price levels for dues....

1) Gold Membership........... Roster and Magazine MAILED

2) Silver Membership..........Magazines mailed and Roster downloadable.

3) Bronze Membership......... Nothing mailed. Roster and Magazine downloadable.

That might make everyone happy. The magazine and roster would be a little more expensive to print because it would not have as much discount for volume...........

[Sweeperman]

I don't think it's a money issue. I'd pay whatever the dues were. …$60, $80,$100 bucks. The problem is they won't recognize there is a problem.
You can't fix or even make something better if the old school members don't see anything as a problem. They seem to not care what the membership is practcally begging for because anyone who does not feel the same as the decision makers are viewed as just a trouble maker to start with.

How can you suggest a positive change to someone who has been on the board for 2 decades and held all the officer positions multiple times. Will they really think you have something positive to suggest that they don't already know? Your presence is only needed to agree with their opinion.

Call me crazy but wouldn't the definition of crazy/insanity be voting the same individuals onto the board and expecting a different outcome than the last time they were officers and directors?

[Uncle Jackson]

First, I was elected to the BCCA Board at this year's Canvention. My 2 minute speech included 3 important concepts:
- we need to become as digital as possible.
- we need to expand our focus away from old cans to craft cans and other Breweriana. Note I am exclusively an old can collector, but acknowledge the need for change to the organization.
- only then will we be able attract the younger, more avid collectors. More members will solve a lot of problems.

Second, some comments I have heard from the installed bureaucracy:
- sending electronic copies of the roster and magazine will not save much as it will increase our cost for those that are printed due to smaller quantities. I think that we can subsidize those that still want the paper copies (that may include me). This misses the point though, electronic delivery is not about saving money, it is about better service delivery. Note that someone started yet another when did you get your magazine post. If it was electronic, we would all get it at the same time. Younger potential members do not read newspapers, they get their info online, so this change would also attract new members.
- it appears that we are trying to do the limited moves into the electronic age by exclusively using in-house talent. I know that Dan Bora and others have been brought in to change the website. The new site will be debuted in the next couple of months, hopefully with a lot of hoopla. Jeff Galloway has created a great craft cans database, but he did so out of frustration that the existing digital composite could not handle it. Now we have 2 software programs delivering the same thing.
- this is clearly a chicken/egg problem. I did not realize it until I attended a couple of board meetings. The number of people that are actively involved with the BCCA is scarily few. I got volunteered to be on the board only because I did not say no immediately when asked. There were only 4 nominees for 4 slots. That is not healthy. We need more volunteers to help solve these problems. On the other side, it is obvious to me that the organization has not done a good job asking for help and taking input from those willing to help. See Randy's comments on this.
- going after disenchanted former members like Randy is not worth it as you will not get them to come back. I look at this as an opportunity to see why we failed them as an organization and what we could do to change it. It is like trying to learn from your mistakes.

This is long winded enough. Please feel free to contact me (PMs are Ok) if you have any questions, comments or ideas. At this point, I am trying to listen and learn about all of your issues.

Thank you for your continued agitating on this, hopefully it is not for naught.

[Mabel Another]

Membership pricing is certainly a factor and Jomama is correct about many collectors outside the BCCA.

Us Canvetioneers witnessed the mishap of the young mans cans being recycled. This new collector is pre or early teens. I just sent 170 cans to an eight year old in TN basically for postage. and provided BCCA, RB, and Wheaton's contact info.

So yes they are out there but pricing is prohibitive for a young collector to join the BCCA.

Just sayin,
Mabel

PS let's give Al his year and see if a turn around starts. I have the faith!

[oldmoneytexan]

I can't remember the last time I visited the BCCA page. No need.

[jomama]

No doubt .... This past week has been the biggest boom to beer can collecting since the hey-day of beer can collecting! (and the week is not over yet) I added 3 new beer can collectors to the hobby today. Wake up BCCA!!!

[Sweetmule]

Randy - some great points. Going digital would be great, but the biggest and most obvious goal has to be to get the various clubs to combine! Everybody is excited about the recent Canvention and it gave the hobby a real boost - why? Because there were lots of people and activity!

Why can't we get the clubs combined? Well, one of the clubs needs to take the initiative and publicize the effort. Why can't the BCCA Board take the lead and approach ABA and NABA? I am a member of all three, as many people are. As a NABA member, if I heard that the BCCA wanted to merge with NABA and couldn't get the NABA Board to respond - I would be unhappy enough to quit NABA and tell them why. The BCCA Board should make this their absolute priority and put an article/ad in the magazine urging members to reach out to the Boards of NABA, ABA, ECBA, etc... to join together.

The benefits of a combined club would be amazing and would give the combined hobby a much better chance to grow with new and younger members. The alternative is watching 3/4 clubs with their respective power struggles continue to decline.

[agkg25220]

Why charge visitors to our trade floor anything?Let potential new members come in and see what fun this is.i think this will increase membership. Art

[idigrust]

There were only 4 nominees for 4 slots. That is not healthy.

You may find in your next 2 years that regardless of what you bring up, nothing will change, hence no one cares to try to help anymore.

[Kotto]

I'm glad that Randy posted his letter, and I hope that it get's some attention. I don't think that he is trying to encourage anyone else to quit the club, nor do I think that he is against the rest of us trying to encourage others to join. I've never been a BCCA board member, but I've been to several meetings over the years. I've also known many board members and officers over the past three decades, and having listened to many stories, I agree with the points made that it is usually quite difficult to push through changes. Randy and others are frustrated and say they will never be BCCA members. I also have been frustrated at times, but I will always be a BCCA member. Tough to make changes from within as a member, but even tougher to make changes from outside as a non-member.

We must realize that, while hundreds of BCCA members use the Rusty Bunch Forum, there are over 3,000 BCCA members, most of whom never visit this site. However, many of them want things done THEIR WAY, not my way or your way. THE BCCA board and officers have the joy of also having to try to keep those guys happy, and they can be quite a vocal bunch. I don't really know who's "right" or "wrong" on the issues that Randy has raised. However, if there is one point that has my full agreement it is that the web page needs to be user friendly, regularly updated, and impressive, especially to newcomers who we might hope will join us.

I've also read jomama's "Wake Up BCCA!" thread. I also am an ebay user. Let's try something. Anyone selling cans on ebay add a sentence or two to encourage people to join the BCCA, despite all of it's flaws. Recommend that they go to bcca.com (despite all of its flaws). Sure, many people will ignore the invitation. Some might have a look. During the membership meeting in Milwaukee, it was said that a vastly improved web page will be unveiled soon. I sincerely hope that it proves to be a winner. Some ebay users may check it out and decide that it's not for them. But some may join. An influx of new and younger people could help influence and perhaps even pressure the right people, and maybe lead to some progress for the club. Maybe not, but there is no downside. Growing the BCCA membership would in no way harm those who choose not to be members, but would help those of us who choose to be part of a club that I have loved for 35 years now.

[kruegerbock]

There was actually a fifth candidate for board this year who had served on the board in the past. He withdrew his name when he learned that there were two "new" candidates that he believed were good candidates. In the interest of full disclosure - the year that I ran, the nominating committee had only three board candidates prior to convincing me to run (after I had told them I would consider running the following year).

I do believe that it is difficult to recruit and retain "new blood" due the fact that committee membership is for the most part permanent, and long time board members have a distinct advantage when it comes to contested elections.

There has been some minimal discussion regarding two or more clubs combining. I believe that some of the other clubs have even worse demographics than the BCCA does with respect to average age of the membership, etc.

Outside of BCCA, I personally am only a member of ECBA. I know a couple of years back ECBA had serious discussions regarding combining their conventions for at least one year.

I don't agree that "everything should be digital" but I strongly believe we need to shift resources (expenditures and volunteers' time) between print and digital offerings.

#1 goal is identify and transition to a Magazine editor to replace Bob Lettenberger who is resigning.

[idigrust]

Thanks to the BCCA President Al for posting !!! Way different than before !!! I will be the first to ask THE question. Why can't everything be downloadable ? It's not a question of "ONLY" downloading, just the ability to Download. If the older generation don't want to, then fine, but I do ! the 15 year olds do, the 25 year olds do. I'm helping building an awesome new site that actually right now is just the old site with a better look. kinda silly really. anyone want the address ? (I'll probably lose my "free" job if I post it but....)

[pinnacle-project]

I've also read jomama's "Wake Up BCCA!" thread. I also am an ebay user. Let's try something. Anyone selling cans on ebay add a sentence or two to encourage people to join the BCCA, despite all of it's flaws. Recommend that they go to bcca.com (despite all of its flaws). Sure, many people will ignore the invitation. Some might have a look.

Good idea. I seldom sell cans on ebay but the next time I do, I will put both the BCCA and The Rusty Bunch in my ad.

[Barry Travis]

Okay...lets give this a shot. All you eBay sellers?

Print this sheet out and place your CAN (or cans) upon it. Take a picture for your ebay auctions and let's see if we can't snag a few new collectors by using the exposure of ePay to leverage the love.

I've done it in black and white so everyone can't utilize it.

PRINT IT OUT WHILE YOUR REMEMBER!

[rjlett]

A few random thoughts to consider …

All digital … NO! All print … NO! The two forms of communication must work together to effectively communicate to all who wish to listen to the BCCA's message.

JUST DO IT! LET's JUST TRY IT! TRY EVERYTHING NOW! … NO! As noted further up this thread there are 3,000 plus BCCA members, all who can wish to have their idea tried and have it done their way. The BCCA is a business. You may think it is a hobby, but as a non-profit organization it is a membership business. No business survives on just doing everything whenever they feel like it. Believe it or not, those computer guys in the garage referenced earlier here did have a mission … build a better computer.

Which leads me to next point … FOCUS … What is the product of our business? In my humble opinion, the BCCA should be in the business of providing the best, most complete, up-to-date information in the breweriana hobby. As BCCA members, we buy into the benefits of this product with our dues and should enjoy the hobby more because of the what we learn from the BCCA. (This is called mission fulfillment and it make an organization strong in two ways … financially and status-wise. Who is the leading non-profit advocate in the sport aviation arena? Go check out what the Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA) looks like.)

Finally, yes, it is nice to be recognized for work done as a volunteer. In most non-profit organizations, the volunteer coordinator works in concert with the executive director or president to insure proper and ample recognition is given to volunteers. Could someone please direct me to the BCCA's volunteer coordinator? Or maybe someone here would like to step up and initiate such a position to harness all the great ideas floating around here.

[Sea Monkey]

All digital … NO! All print … NO! The two forms of communication must work together to effectively communicate to all who wish to listen to the BCCA's message.

JUST DO IT! LET's JUST TRY IT! TRY EVERYTHING NOW! … NO! .

Right now the ONLY form of communication is print! JUST DO IT! LET's JUST TRY IT! TRY EVERYTHING NOW!...........YES!!!! Are you kidding me? WHY NOT just do it/just try it?
I am not a computer guy but isn't the magazine already in digital form to send to the printing company? Wouldn't it take next to nothing in terms of time and money to download it to a hosting service (or the RB site) and post a link to it?
I don't see the down side to just doing it/just trying it now.

I filmed the RB business meeting with my pocket digital camera, uploaded it to Youtube and posted a link on the RB site for ALL to see. It was simple and didn't cost anything. Now ALL our members across the WORLD know what was discussed and what direction the club is going. Bill also had the meeting minutes out and posted digitally within a day or so. Why can't this be done by the BCCA?

I PERSONALY can't run for BCCA office because I work 6 days a week and can't afford the time and money to travel around the country to go to the shows that have the business meetings at them. If there was WEB CONFERENCING then someone like me possibly WOULD be able to run for the board.

What I think the BCCA Board's FIRST item to be addressed has to be eliminating RED TAPE from the Standard Operating Procedures. For example: The Board should VOTE to allow meeting minutes to be shared between BOARD MEMBERS via email AS SOON as they are written up by the Secretary. After ALL Board members approve them VIA EMAIL, they should be IMMEDIATLY released to the membership. There is NO REASON there should be a several month delay because they were waiting for the NEXT business meeting to approve them. Why would this not be the simplest thing to achieve? Extrapolate this process to many, many other things to reduce red tape. The Board can easily vote to reduce a lot of red tape and provide itself some autonomy to be able to get stuff done in a more timely manner.

The RB had a similar situation. There was no way in our By Laws that would allow anything to be done by an online vote. Things could only be voted on at Canvantion and Blue Gray. We are a very spread out chapter and most can't attend these shows. How did we fix this? We VOTED at Blue Gray to amend our By Laws to allow online voting when the BOARD MEMBERS thought it appropriate. That cut the potential red tape considerably...................

[idigrust]

Bill also had the meeting minutes out and posted digitally within a day or so.

Actually about 35 minutes later.

[CMD]

The simplest thing for the BCCA to change and actually get things done more quickly is to have 12 monthly board meetings (from the 6 now) but only have two that need to be attended in person ..Canvention of course and a spring meeting. The other 10 can be accomplished via video chat.

This cuts the time in half for any BCCA decision that has to be voted on. The RB has been done monthly meetings for close to 3 years now and video chat monthly meetings for over a year with great success.

Plus by having video chats , it reduces the financial burden on officer and board members travel expenses. Reduced travel expenses would increase the number of people willing to serve.

Moreover , by having video chats , members could log in and "attend" the meeting.

I know I know , even if they thought this was a great idea , it would have to be brought up and researched since it would require changing of the rules and then voted on. All they would have to do to get it going is contact Chris Taylor and he could lead them in the right direction...its not rocket surgery

Cheers

Dan

[dwaugh]

The BCCA is a business. You may think it is a hobby, but as a non-profit organization it is a membership business. No business survives on just doing everything whenever they feel like it.

And no business survives that is not agile enough to keep up with competition, technology, business trends, and the needs and wants of its customer base.