Color variations vs. color tolerance

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Color variations vs. color tolerance

#1

Post by Wisbeers »

I’ve always struggled with how much of a color difference constitutes a variation, and I just acquired something that provides some clarity. These approval plates document a “color tolerance” range for printing this label. I don’t know how well the colors show up in the images, but these are clearly intended to show the acceptable levels of lightness to darkness when printing this can. I don’t know how far back this practice goes, but doubt that it was a new concept in 1971. And maybe this is well-known or has been addressed here previously and is just new to me, but FYI if not.
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Re: Color variations vs. color tolerance

#2

Post by Conehead »

Very good information.

I have always been skeptical of the slight color variations as well.

Thanks for posting.

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Re: Color variations vs. color tolerance

#3

Post by menke »

And of top of that, fade issues. High grade cans that spend years in lit can rooms take a beating, and begin to look different. And paint darkening- many Crown cans with white paint begin to look cream and yellow after many years. Then you rub out a Wagner's and you see the original white, it's eye-opening. And quality control is never 100%, either.
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Re: Color variations vs. color tolerance

#4

Post by Can Dr. »

Interesting topic that I do not know if we will ever know. I know in the 90s while working for a beer distributor Coors was changing there Keystone label color from maroon to a lighter brown color. This was a major concern for Coors, all packaging, case cards, permanent p.o.s. had to be pulled from the market, anything maroon. Although it was from maroon to brown it really was not that big of a change.
However, these tolerance specks are fascinating. We know there are the silver, gray, and off white variants around WWII, but when you get post war cans with slight variations it becomes interesting. The Krueger ale oval is a great example with a cream shield, and a white shield. I also have three boldly different base greens like the early Kruegers from the 30s. I also agree with Matt on environmental changes.

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Re: Color variations vs. color tolerance

#5

Post by Carl S »

This can help explain why the Rainier Jubilee colors can be so confusing. Between American Can Co and Continental Can Co plus color tolerance, you end up with a wide spectrum of colors.

Thanks for sharing.

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Re: Color variations vs. color tolerance

#6

Post by Beverlx »

I am curious if other guys have color tolerance specs -- if so, let's open up a thread for these in the Reference forum eventually. @Rand, I see that you saw this thread, which seems a useful piece of reference down the road when someone comes on with an infinitesimal color difference.

Thanks to @Wisbeers.

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Re: Color variations vs. color tolerance

#7

Post by Rand »

Beverlx wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:36 pm
I am curious if other guys have color tolerance specs -- if so, let's open up a thread for these in the Reference forum eventually. @Rand, I see that you saw this thread, which seems a useful piece of reference down the road when someone comes on with an infinitesimal color difference.

Thanks to @Wisbeers.
Thread isn't useful as reference, but the initial post is very useful. Can't figure out how to get just the one post forked off over to Reference, but leave all the random chit-chat here. Do you know?

Rand
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Re: Color variations vs. color tolerance

#8

Post by foreigncanman »

Some breweries seem to have more tolerance/less colour control than others. Moosehead cans of the 1950's seem notorious for this.Most are yellow but one is an orange cream. Tom Hoffman
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Re: Color variations vs. color tolerance

#9

Post by YooperAho »

eh!yooeraho here. At late Discussions. :smt030 with the Kamsquare. Ponder that same ? :smt017 And came up with this
IMG_0001 (1).JPG
It's only a Beer Can. NOT SOMETHING YOUR GOING TO KEEP FOR EVER. Where not Painting CAR'S Here. :shock:
Last edited by YooperAho on Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Color variations vs. color tolerance

#10

Post by kruegerbock »

I generally don't consider a can to be different just because of color *unless* there is some other demonstrable difference, no matter how small, on the can. Could be a canning code. Notice that I said generally, as I have some Krueger cans that fail this test, yet I keep them just the same...
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Re: Color variations vs. color tolerance

#11

Post by idigrust »

Rand wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:00 pm
Beverlx wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:36 pm
I am curious if other guys have color tolerance specs -- if so, let's open up a thread for these in the Reference forum eventually. @Rand, I see that you saw this thread, which seems a useful piece of reference down the road when someone comes on with an infinitesimal color difference.

Thanks to @Wisbeers.
Thread isn't useful as reference, but the initial post is very useful. Can't figure out how to get just the one post forked off over to Reference, but leave all the random chit-chat here. Do you know?

Rand
Silly PHP folks forgot that one... you'll have to Copy the whole topic, then delete the other posts.
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Re: Color variations vs. color tolerance

#12

Post by Rand »

idigrust wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:10 pm
Rand wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:00 pm
Beverlx wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:36 pm
I am curious if other guys have color tolerance specs -- if so, let's open up a thread for these in the Reference forum eventually. @Rand, I see that you saw this thread, which seems a useful piece of reference down the road when someone comes on with an infinitesimal color difference.

Thanks to @Wisbeers.
Thread isn't useful as reference, but the initial post is very useful. Can't figure out how to get just the one post forked off over to Reference, but leave all the random chit-chat here. Do you know?

Rand
Silly PHP folks forgot that one... you'll have to Copy the whole topic, then delete the other posts.
Thanks....done
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Re: Color variations vs. color tolerance

#13

Post by Uncle Jackson »

In the Supplement, we are having the same problem - when is a color difference enough to support creating a separate entry. I agree with Al, it has to have some other difference before I would consider it a different can. Sometimes, it is only a change in can company as each has slightly different color formulations.

Also, in the Supplement, we are sometimes stuck with the original beer entries where we can only see very subtle differences in color. Those may only have been mistaken duplicates that slipped into the book.

Finally, it is amazing how differing lighting and equipment will change perceived colors. You really can only tell if you have the original items side by side.

Great thread. Thanx.
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Re: Color variations vs. color tolerance

#14

Post by jinsequa »

I have the color tolerance flat sheets in a book for Rainier Ale, Olympia and Olympia Gold.
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Re: Color variations vs. color tolerance

#15

Post by Rand »

jinsequa wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:49 am
I have the color tolerance flat sheets in a book for Rainier Ale, Olympia and Olympia Gold.
Eric Palmer
Ooooo.....cool.....any chance you could scan them and add them to the Reference section thread I started?

(or pass them to me and I'll post it)

Rand :-)
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Re: Color variations vs. color tolerance

#16

Post by jinsequa »

Rand wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:37 pm
jinsequa wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:49 am
I have the color tolerance flat sheets in a book for Rainier Ale, Olympia and Olympia Gold.
Eric Palmer
Ooooo.....cool.....any chance you could scan them and add them to the Reference section thread I started?

(or pass them to me and I'll post it)

Rand :-)
I will see what I can do. My first foray to look for them was unsuccessful. I will try again tomorrow. I have this bad habit of tucking away things like flat can sheets into odd places like books, combined with I just have too much beer related crap in too many places.

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Re: Color variations vs. color tolerance

#17

Post by Rand »

jinsequa wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:47 pm
Rand wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:37 pm
jinsequa wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:49 am
I have the color tolerance flat sheets in a book for Rainier Ale, Olympia and Olympia Gold.
Eric Palmer
Ooooo.....cool.....any chance you could scan them and add them to the Reference section thread I started?

(or pass them to me and I'll post it)

Rand :-)
I will see what I can do. My first foray to look for them was unsuccessful. I will try again tomorrow. I have this bad habit of tucking away things like flat can sheets into odd places like books, combined with I just have too much beer related crap in too many places.

Eric Palmer
Thanks! I said "scan".....but pictures would work too. :-)
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Re: Color variations vs. color tolerance

#18

Post by jinsequa »

Finally found one of the color tolerance books I was looking for. This is the Olympia Gold from 1977.
It is not something I could really scan as the can sheets are attached to the folder, and getting a pic wasn’t easy with all that gold.

Eric Palmer
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