What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

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What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#1

Post by keithker »

I figure @Conehead might know best. Just trying to see where we might be able to plug it into the 85 year project......



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Re: What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#2

Post by Conehead »

Keith,

I'm not the historian like many here, but I'll take a crack at it.

The Krueger 16 oz. have the standard HP spout and the pre WWII Cap-Sealed panel, so I would estimate as early as 1941, maybe 1942.

A Krueger specialist could probably narrow it down some more.

No newspaper articles on it's appearance?

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Re: What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#3

Post by mtracy64 »

The unique oddball variation doesn't carry a copyright date, but the standard pair have a 1941 copyright.

Marc

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Re: What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#4

Post by keithker »

Conehead wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:05 am
Keith,

I'm not the historian like many here, but I'll take a crack at it.

The Krueger 16 oz. have the standard HP spout and the pre WWII Cap-Sealed panel, so I would estimate as early as 1941, maybe 1942.

A Krueger specialist could probably narrow it down some more.

No newspaper articles on it's appearance?

Jim
@Conehead Jim...sadly no newspaper articles on the 16oz variation.......

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Re: What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#5

Post by MarkB »

mtracy64 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:09 am
The unique oddball variation doesn't carry a copyright date, but the standard pair have a 1941 copyright.

Marc
is that a copyright for the can design or the label design??

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Re: What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#6

Post by mtracy64 »

MarkB wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:49 am
mtracy64 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:09 am
The unique oddball variation doesn't carry a copyright date, but the standard pair have a 1941 copyright.

Marc
is that a copyright for the can design or the label design??

MarkB
It says G.K.B. Co. 1941, so it must be for the label design

Marc

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Re: What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#7

Post by MarkB »

mtracy64 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:48 am
MarkB wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:49 am
mtracy64 wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:09 am
The unique oddball variation doesn't carry a copyright date, but the standard pair have a 1941 copyright.

Marc
is that a copyright for the can design or the label design??

MarkB
It says G.K.B. Co. 1941, so it must be for the label design

Marc
So it could be postwar then. I bet it is 1941 though. If they came out right before canning ended it would help explain why they did not last long.

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Re: What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#8

Post by mtracy64 »

MarkB wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:09 pm
mtracy64 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:48 am
MarkB wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:49 am


is that a copyright for the can design or the label design??

MarkB
It says G.K.B. Co. 1941, so it must be for the label design

Marc
So it could be postwar then. I bet it is 1941 though. If they came out right before canning ended it would help explain why they did not last long.

MarkB
It could be post-war, but the circumstantial evidence against that notion is pretty strong. The Ale has been found with pre-war cans, both indoors and out. The label strongly resembles the pre-war cans, and looks nothing like the post-war IRTP cans. The cans also bear the same anti-litter statement seen on the last pre-war flats.

I owned the oddball 16 oz. Beer Jim mentioned above, and it differs from the standard can in two ways. All three lines between K-Man's legs are solid, so "Reg. U.S. Pat. Off." is absent or obscured. The can also does not have the copyright statement. My thought process is that it went to market ahead of copyright approval.

Marc

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Re: What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#9

Post by MarkB »

mtracy64 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:33 pm
MarkB wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:09 pm
mtracy64 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:48 am


It says G.K.B. Co. 1941, so it must be for the label design

Marc
So it could be postwar then. I bet it is 1941 though. If they came out right before canning ended it would help explain why they did not last long.

MarkB
It could be post-war, but the circumstantial evidence against that notion is pretty strong. The Ale has been found with pre-war cans, both indoors and out. The label strongly resembles the pre-war cans, and looks nothing like the post-war IRTP cans. The cans also bear the same anti-litter statement seen on the last pre-war flats.

I owned the oddball 16 oz. Beer Jim mentioned above, and it differs from the standard can in two ways. All three lines between K-Man's legs are solid, so "Reg. U.S. Pat. Off." is absent or obscured. The can also does not have the copyright statement. My thought process is that it went to market ahead of copyright approval.

Marc
I agree. I think of all the ones found in the huge find of ale cans in New England along with Crofts and other pre-war cans. If it came out right before the war, that would help explain why it was such a short-lived can. Perhaps it never got traction before the civilian canning ban.

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Re: What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#10

Post by Conehead »

Here are images of the 2 different Beers in question.

Not for Sale
O30b.JPG
O30a.JPG


O25b.JPG
O25a.JPG
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Re: What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#11

Post by Woody »

In the Feb/March 2004 Bcca Magazine, they ran a small article on page 9 dealing with age of the Krueger 16 ounce cones. Stating that they were produced in 1941 and only around for about a year before they stopped due to the war effort. Terry Scullin #1041 wrote the article celebrating the 50th anniversary of the 16 ounce flat top by Schlitz in 1954. Mentioning that the first 16 ounce can had been 13 years earlier, but as a cone! I do have to say that it was pretty cool having 237 on those bad boys lined up in rows on my barn floor! Woody

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Re: What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#12

Post by keithker »

@Woody Thanks for narrowing down the date. We are limiting ourselves to one slide per year since it would be so long (over 85 slides) and sadly the Gibbons bock is sitting nicely in 1941

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Re: What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#13

Post by Longopener »

Kruger Ale 16 cone Seam.jpg
The Continental Can co logo looks pre-war. Midwest and Eastern breweries went to CCC after the war.
"Although the cans will be of no value after opened, their cost is expected to be small..." Iowa: June 22, 1935

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Re: What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#14

Post by menke »

Yeah they went to the large-font Cap-Sealed logo in 1944 in the middle of the Olive Drab era. Gotta be pre-March 1942.
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Re: What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#15

Post by eric »

I'm away from my cans and can't quite see from the panel pictured, but always assumed the numbers before the "patents applied for" was a date (8-41?)

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Re: What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#16

Post by Longopener »

keithker wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:58 pm
@Woody Thanks for narrowing down the date. We are limiting ourselves to one slide per year since it would be so long (over 85 slides) and sadly the Gibbons bock is sitting nicely in 1941
As much as I love the Gibbons Bock, I think a 16 ounce cone is much more ground breaking and a first for beer cans. Since LP cones were pretty much out of the picture by 1941 so not representing any milestones of beer containers. Bulb Top HPs came out in 1939 and standard HPs were out by 1941. Even Berghoff had moved to HP cones by 41 and they were longtime holdovers with the LPs.
eric wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:33 pm
I'm away from my cans and can't quite see from the panel pictured, but always assumed the numbers before the "patents applied for" was a date (8-41?)
Yes, 8-41 are the numbers on the panel. That sure looks like a date code for August 1941 to me.
"Although the cans will be of no value after opened, their cost is expected to be small..." Iowa: June 22, 1935

Why drive 12 hour one way to dig Pre-Tax Tru Blu ales, Genny 12 Horse Longopeners, Gamecock Ales, Apollos, Neuweilers Bock, and Krueger’s Baldies when you can locally drive 10 hours round trip and dig Pfeiffer, Goebel, Drewrys and Strohs?

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Re: What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#17

Post by Longopener »

...and now for the proof...

The American Brewer vol. 74, no. 10 (October 1941) Page 57
Attachments
Krueger capping Machine for 16 oz cans order Oct 1941.jpg
"Although the cans will be of no value after opened, their cost is expected to be small..." Iowa: June 22, 1935

Why drive 12 hour one way to dig Pre-Tax Tru Blu ales, Genny 12 Horse Longopeners, Gamecock Ales, Apollos, Neuweilers Bock, and Krueger’s Baldies when you can locally drive 10 hours round trip and dig Pfeiffer, Goebel, Drewrys and Strohs?

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Re: What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#18

Post by Conehead »

Hmmm.

I never thought of the 8-41 as a date code.

8-41 appears on many of the early HP cones. 21-6 is also very common on the early HP. and also the 52-(number and letter) are common. So I also figured these were plant designations.

The 8-41 is also very common on quarts.

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Re: What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#19

Post by Longopener »

You're Right Jim... Nix that date code idea. Continental Can Co plant number makes more sense.

However, I think the clipping I found clinches that the cans were filled in 1941.
"Although the cans will be of no value after opened, their cost is expected to be small..." Iowa: June 22, 1935

Why drive 12 hour one way to dig Pre-Tax Tru Blu ales, Genny 12 Horse Longopeners, Gamecock Ales, Apollos, Neuweilers Bock, and Krueger’s Baldies when you can locally drive 10 hours round trip and dig Pfeiffer, Goebel, Drewrys and Strohs?

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Re: What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#20

Post by MI-Cans »

Woody
January 1st, 2020, 7:47 pm
In the Feb/March 2004 Bcca Magazine, they ran a small article on page 9 dealing with age of the Krueger 16 ounce cones. Stating that they were produced in 1941 and only around for about a year before they stopped due to the war effort. Terry Scullin #1041 wrote the article celebrating the 50th anniversary of the 16 ounce flat top by Schlitz in 1954. Mentioning that the first 16 ounce can had been 13 years earlier, but as a cone! I do have to say that it was pretty cool having 237 on those bad boys lined up in rows on my barn floor! Woody
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Re: What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#21

Post by Longopener »

FD1CA702-ED60-4F3B-94E8-9F1B20391BCD.png
The American Brewer vol. 74, no. 10 (October 1941) Page 57
"Although the cans will be of no value after opened, their cost is expected to be small..." Iowa: June 22, 1935

Why drive 12 hour one way to dig Pre-Tax Tru Blu ales, Genny 12 Horse Longopeners, Gamecock Ales, Apollos, Neuweilers Bock, and Krueger’s Baldies when you can locally drive 10 hours round trip and dig Pfeiffer, Goebel, Drewrys and Strohs?

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Re: What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#22

Post by keithker »

@Longopener Chris and everyone else. Thanks so much for confirming that. I'll see if we can work it in with the Gibbons Bock, The 16oz cone top I think was the only thing we really had left off.........

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Re: What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#23

Post by Longopener »

I really think it’s a milestone. I hate always seeing the 16 oz cone as a footnote or anomaly in articles.
"Although the cans will be of no value after opened, their cost is expected to be small..." Iowa: June 22, 1935

Why drive 12 hour one way to dig Pre-Tax Tru Blu ales, Genny 12 Horse Longopeners, Gamecock Ales, Apollos, Neuweilers Bock, and Krueger’s Baldies when you can locally drive 10 hours round trip and dig Pfeiffer, Goebel, Drewrys and Strohs?

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Re: What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#24

Post by Woody »

By the way, that photo was taken before I had the gray hairs on the sides!!!! HAHAHA Woody :smile: :smile: :smile: :smile:

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Re: What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#25

Post by potters66 »

Woody,
Hard to believe it was that long ago..... I remember sitting in your basement cleaning all those cans. Did you see your old quart flat I got from you in the good guys auction. Damn prices have gone down!!! The memories we all have and by the way I have nothing but grey now. :cry:
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Re: What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#26

Post by Longopener »

At least you’ve got hair!
"Although the cans will be of no value after opened, their cost is expected to be small..." Iowa: June 22, 1935

Why drive 12 hour one way to dig Pre-Tax Tru Blu ales, Genny 12 Horse Longopeners, Gamecock Ales, Apollos, Neuweilers Bock, and Krueger’s Baldies when you can locally drive 10 hours round trip and dig Pfeiffer, Goebel, Drewrys and Strohs?

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Re: What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#27

Post by Woody »

I saw the Auction Steve, but didn't realize that it was the quart. I looked quick and thought it was the 12 ounce flat. Nice score! Some of the offgrade stuff has been obtainable, but the on grade stuff has been through the roof on some of the recent auctions. I hope that things are going well for you guys down south. Hopefully I'll see you at a show at some point! Woody

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Re: What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#28

Post by keithker »

Woody wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:34 pm
By the way, that photo was taken before I had the gray hairs on the sides!!!! HAHAHA Woody :smile: :smile: :smile: :smile:
@Woody You're still a Rock Star!!! Thanks for getting the dates nailed down with @Longopener Chris. It will be included in the project

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Re: What year did the Krueger 16oz cone top make it's appearance?

#29

Post by Cap-Sealed »

crown 9-37.PNG
I guess this crown can fits the Eblings 16oz-ers....????
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