905 LA-GIT OR CRAP (ZIP TAB)????????????????

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905 LA-GIT OR CRAP (ZIP TAB)????????????????

#1

Post by YooperAho » Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:04 am

Eh! yooperaho here . Is this can La- Git.or GRAP :smt017
IMG_0005 (1).JPG



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Re: 905 LA-GIT OR CRAP (ZIP TAB)????????????????

#2

Post by Bob L » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:49 am

I say: crap.

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Re: 905 LA-GIT OR CRAP (ZIP TAB)????????????????

#3

Post by Uncle Jackson » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:43 am

Relidded? Display only can? There are several in the book that I think were never real production cans.

So, if we could prove this to be relidded, how should we treat it in the Supplement. Currently, we are adding a comment that the can is suspect. Thoughts?
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Re: 905 LA-GIT OR CRAP (ZIP TAB)????????????????

#4

Post by JAL » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:21 am

905 Brewery, single line - RELID.

Same label design, Drewry's South Bend, different story...

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Re: 905 LA-GIT OR CRAP (ZIP TAB)????????????????

#5

Post by JAL » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:22 am

I believe the can shown is a certain RB members can...

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Re: 905 LA-GIT OR CRAP (ZIP TAB)????????????????

#6

Post by MI-Cans » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:27 am

@Uncle Jackson
Just a curiosity...Is there a reference of who provided the cans that were photographed in the original publications? I know that there's no guarantee that the person still has a particular can or is even in the Hobby any more. How about the current round of picture taking, are the donors being kept track of?

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Re: 905 LA-GIT OR CRAP (ZIP TAB)????????????????

#7

Post by Beercanpete » Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:27 pm

I have the feeling there are quite a few cans on my want list that don't exist, including this one … notes in the Supplement would be great. Even a note to the effect that "we have not been able to substantiate for sure this exists" would be a great addition.

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Re: 905 LA-GIT OR CRAP (ZIP TAB)????????????????

#8

Post by Uncle Jackson » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:59 am

We have no comprehensive ability to find out who contributed a given can. In many of the cases, we can put together a good guess. But that is for the cans we have re-imaged. For those we are still missing, we would have contacted the owner if we had clear record of who that is. Also, there are some (not many) where it looks like there were errors or duplicates in the books. We will be trying to note those, but are reluctant to eliminate the original entries as we cannot prove that a can does not exist.

Hopefully this helps. Should you have any additional questions, please let me know.
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Re: 905 LA-GIT OR CRAP (ZIP TAB)????????????????

#9

Post by keithker » Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:05 pm

Well I was hoping to be able to make some determinations with the 905 beer ads....sadly the shifty ads only added to the confusion...the original can layout ads were included in both the 1963 ad and the 1966 ad which now said the cans were in tabs....I'd actual be leaning more towards the ad that "first" featured a pull tab with the newer design since that was on May 1966 and the shifty other ad that references tabs was from July 1966 but used the older image of the stacked cans with the old design....
St__Louis_Post_Dispatch_Thu__Mar_21__1963_.jpg
St__Louis_Post_Dispatch_Thu__Jul_7__1966_.jpg
St__Louis_Post_Dispatch_Thu__May_12__1966_.jpg

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Re: 905 LA-GIT OR CRAP (ZIP TAB)????????????????

#10

Post by Scott Rollert » Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:42 am

I am no expert in the land of tabs, but a couple of things I see here. The last ad for the ring tab top shows the first generation of the ring style opening. I refer to this lid as the U-ring vs. the U-tab in the CO composite. The U-tab is a zip. Is it possible that a one year earlier 905 had the U-tab? It certainly would not be the one mentioned in the supplement, it's a different label than the one in the ad Keith posted.
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Re: 905 LA-GIT OR CRAP (ZIP TAB)????????????????

#11

Post by MI-Cans » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:41 am

@Scott Rollert
Have to agree with Scott. The last image shows the actual lid to be a first version RING PULL TAB. That leads me to think that possibly the 905 Brewers joined the self-opening generation late in the ZIP TAB production or early in the RING PULL production.

I pointed out in my Zip Tab Summary that the slot shaped lid was identical between the ZIP TAB version and the RING PULL versions. Once the tab was removed, it would be difficult to know if it was a ZIP or RING originally.

Until a can surfaces with an actual, original ZIP TAB lid, there's no proof that such a can existed. (And as @Uncle Jackson inferred, organized record keeping at the BCCA leaves something to be desired.)

I found that there's a lot of misuse of the word Generation when it comes to can lids. I'm including what I put together so as to keep my thinking organized when I did the Zip Tab Summary.

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FROM MY ZIP TAB SUMMARY:
Slot Opening.png

MY INTERPRETATION OF LID HISTORY:
CAN LID-OLOGY.png
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Re: 905 LA-GIT OR CRAP (ZIP TAB)????????????????

#12

Post by keithker » Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:41 am

I was really hoping that by using the ads posted I could tap down a better transition timeline but because of some really shoddy advertisements in the St Louis newspapers I was unable to come up with anything definitive....

I started my search beginning in 1963 and ending in 1967. I'd agree with @MI-Cans that based only on ads that 905 beer came into the tab tops late in the game (1966). The one really confusing part is that throughout 1963-65, the old 905 design was used EXCEPT for two times in August 1963. I had to go back and confirm that it wasn't mislabeled but on Aug 1 and again on Aug 2 and again on Aug 22, the "new design" appeared in ads. I went to the first page to confirm details matched the date on the newspapers and ads. Khrushchev was involved in the test ban signing so everything matched.

Not sure if that can be contributed to shoddy ads through the rest of 63-65 (i.e. they used what images they had) with them even using the older design in the ads for the 16oz half quarts....or why was the new design was not really used until 1966.

The design with the statue and archway was eventually introduced on April 6, 1967.....
1 - St__Louis_Post_Dispatch_Thu__May_23__1963_.jpg
2 - St__Louis_Post_Dispatch_Thu__Aug_1__1963_.jpg
3 - St__Louis_Post_Dispatch_Thu__Aug_22__1963_.jpg
4 - St__Louis_Post_Dispatch_Thu__Sep_12__1963_.jpg
5 - St__Louis_Post_Dispatch_Thu__Apr_9__1964_.jpg
6 - St__Louis_Post_Dispatch_Thu__May_28__1964_.jpg
7 - St__Louis_Post_Dispatch_Thu__Jul_30__1964_.jpg
8 - St__Louis_Post_Dispatch_Thu__Jul_22__1965_.jpg
8a - St__Louis_Post_Dispatch_Thu__May_12__1966_.jpg
9 - St__Louis_Post_Dispatch_Thu__Apr_6__1967_.jpg

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Re: 905 LA-GIT OR CRAP (ZIP TAB)????????????????

#13

Post by storzman » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:13 pm

Scott - so anything that has a smile bead is gen 3 can - that is how I understood.

True Gen 1 cans plain is a cool list to see which cans started the change to tabs vs punch tops
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Re: 905 LA-GIT OR CRAP (ZIP TAB)????????????????

#14

Post by hover31 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:34 am

Nothing surprises me anymore, but until I see one....
I would love to find a real, actually filled Land of Lakes tab- they all are a little too minty with pat.pending tab lid.
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Re: 905 LA-GIT OR CRAP (ZIP TAB)????????????????

#15

Post by Beverlx » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:57 am

I always loved the 905 brand's sense of design. I've been staring at those ads and only the drool woke me up.

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Re: 905 LA-GIT OR CRAP (ZIP TAB)????????????????

#16

Post by keithker » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:24 am

hover31 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:34 am
Nothing surprises me anymore, but until I see one....
I would love to find a real, actually filled Land of Lakes tab- they all are a little too minty with pat.pending tab lid.
Trust rust! Ziphippie 0C9ABCCB-1EEB-4F0E-980B-84C8243E1C0B.jpegFD7C5087-89A1-4EE1-BA17-CE43C93A71E5.jpeg
@hover31 Bjorn....Plenty of Land of Lakes beer ads after 1963 but not a single one has an image......not a one ad stated that it was in a "tab" or "pull top"...The locations for the ads from 1963-1968 (no ads beyond 1968) however were unique...Alaska, California (called it an Eastern beer), Arizona (called it a Midwestern beer), New Mexico, Texas (still had it in cans in 67 and 68 but didn't say where it was from), Florida, Georgia, Missouri, Illinois, and Iowa.
Daily_Independent_Journal_Thu__Nov_21__1963_.jpg
Tucson_Daily_Citizen_Wed__Oct_23__1963_.jpg
Austin_American_Statesman_Thu__Aug_31__1967_.jpg
The_Atlanta_Constitution_Wed__May_4__1966_.jpg

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Re: 905 LA-GIT OR CRAP (ZIP TAB)????????????????

#17

Post by barfly » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:37 pm

There for awhile I thought this was another Krueger Special thread. There you go fellas. Enjoy
On the photo with the top, notice the four holes drilled in. This can was filled and consumed.
Attachments
IMG_2563.JPG
IMG_2561.JPG

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Re: 905 LA-GIT OR CRAP (ZIP TAB)????????????????

#18

Post by MI-Cans » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:56 pm

I'm no expert on this stuff but I'll go out on a limb and say that looks like a legit Zip Slot Lid to me!

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Re: 905 LA-GIT OR CRAP (ZIP TAB)????????????????

#19

Post by oldmoneytexan » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:41 pm

barfly wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:37 pm
There for awhile I thought this was another Krueger Special thread. There you go fellas. Enjoy
On the photo with the top, notice the four holes drilled in. This can was filled and consumed.
I've held it. In my opinion, it's 100% legit.

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Re: 905 LA-GIT OR CRAP (ZIP TAB)????????????????

#20

Post by oldmoneytexan » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:42 pm

hover31 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:34 am
Nothing surprises me anymore, but until I see one....
I would love to find a real, actually filled Land of Lakes tab- they all are a little too minty with pat.pending tab lid.
Trust rust! Ziphippie 0C9ABCCB-1EEB-4F0E-980B-84C8243E1C0B.jpegFD7C5087-89A1-4EE1-BA17-CE43C93A71E5.jpeg
@hover31


Here ya go. Bought it from LaComb who guaranteed me it's 100% legit, so if you doubt it, talk to him.
LandOfLakes1.jpg
LandOfLakes2.jpg

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Re: 905 LA-GIT OR CRAP (ZIP TAB)????????????????

#21

Post by MI-Cans » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:55 pm

@oldmoneytexan
Edward, beautiful can. Did Art give any reason for the Tivoli/Denver bottom lid?

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Re: 905 LA-GIT OR CRAP (ZIP TAB)????????????????

#22

Post by oldmoneytexan » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:24 pm

MI-Cans wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:55 pm
@oldmoneytexan
Edward, beautiful can. Did Art give any reason for the Tivoli/Denver bottom lid?

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I remember hearing that Tivoli bought the brand? No doubt there are some Tivoli historians that will know.

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Re: 905 LA-GIT OR CRAP (ZIP TAB)????????????????

#23

Post by Wrestling Nut » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:45 pm

This is a great thread. Some people love to call any can they haven't seen a fake. Assuming everyone else is a crook, liar, or simply too ignorant to know anything. This seems especially true when tabs are involved. It's sad really. I get the pessimism as there are plenty of fakes out there in all categories of collecting. However, give your fellow brethren a little bit of credit once in a while.

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Re: 905 LA-GIT OR CRAP (ZIP TAB)????????????????

#24

Post by Scott Rollert » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:59 pm

Tivoli Land of Lakes is 100% legit. That bottom lid is seen on the labels Tivoli acquired near the end of their existence. Kings, Canadian Ace, Jet ML. Was able to confirm the Jet at ABQ Canvention and noted the clarification on the CO composite.
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