BCCA Renewal

Discussion issues on Beer Cans,, Breweriana, Attended Shows etc...

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BCCA Renewal

#1

Post by Conehead » Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:27 pm

Just got my BCCA renewal in the mail. I have paid up every year since 1978 but it gets harder and harder for me to send in my dues. I just don't feel that I am getting anywhere near $40.00 worth from my dues any more.

The one real benefit that I enjoyed was being able to attend Canvention, but I have not been able to go the last two years and it looks like Albuquerque is highly unlikely for me right now.

I've heard all the reasons to renew including "for the good of the hobby", but I don't know that I buy that. I think the hobby would survive without the BCCA, but just in a different form.

What does everyone think?


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Re: BCCA Renewal

#2

Post by pinnacle-project » Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:48 pm

I bet this thread gets interesting. Please respect everyone's opinions. :)

I joined the BCCA sometime in the last year. I have collected since 1975 but had never joined until recently. During my teen years this could be explained by minimal knowledge of the organization and minimal money. When I returned to the hobby (around the time of Fort Wayne Canvention whenever that was), I considered joining but like you I wondered if I could justify it. In the end, I decided $40 was not too much and I just hoped the hobby was better with the BCCA than without it. Also, it seems like in the years since I returned to the hobby there have been some good people putting a lot of effort into improving the club.
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Re: BCCA Renewal

#3

Post by Leon » Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:26 pm

Did they just come out with a new Magazine because I haven't got it yet :smt017 LEON.
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Re: BCCA Renewal

#4

Post by pinnacle-project » Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:40 pm

Leon wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:26 pm
Did they just come out with a new Magazine because I haven't got it yet :smt017 LEON.
I received the September/October issue a couple weeks ago.
Focus: Cones and flats from Michigan, South Bend, and Fort Wayne. Foreign cans only if I bought them myself in the country of origin.

2018 Shows Attended

* Michigan Chapter Winterfest, January 20, Frankenmuth Michigan
* Beer Can's 83rd Birthday Celebration, January 24, Online
* Cabin Fever Reliever, February 24, South Bend Indiana
* Buckeye Chapter, March 10, Toledo Ohio
* Rusty Bunch April Fools Show, Online
* Patrick Henry, May 19, Kalamazoo Michigan
* Website 20th Anniversary Online Show. June 18, Online
* SummerSwap, July 20 & 21, Frankenmuth Michigan
* Eastern Great Lakes Brewery Collectibles Show, October 13 & 14, Cleveland Ohio
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Re: BCCA Renewal

#5

Post by Jeffboyrd » Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:51 pm

$40 is pretty resonable.In addition to be able to attend Canvention the 6 magazines plus the printed roster is well worth the cost .The Facebook page is top notch.Plenty of knowledge on there as well on this site.Practically all my collecting connections are through the BCCA and for that I am forever grateful.In case anyone has forgotten the Rusty Bunch is in fact a BCCA chapter.
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Re: BCCA Renewal

#6

Post by Nosinut » Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:02 am

Since the mid 70s I always heard of the BCCA. I Joined in 89 at 21 years old but did not renew because I could not justify the $26(at the time), I rejoined again in the early 2000's, but again I could not justify the cost to the value, as a father of 3 young ones money was tight. I have been back since 2015. At almost 50 years old time always me to spend more time on my hobby. One thing that really turned me off back in the day was the $1 charge to get your old BCCA number back. It was just a buck but it was the principal and it pissed me off about the BCCA. While there is a little arrogance and attitude with a small group of people, mainly on the facebook pages, the good people outweigh the bad ones and I will renew again.

With that I can't believe it took me so long to join the Rusty Bunch. This forum and website is worth its wait in gold. Another no brainer renewal for me this year.

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Re: BCCA Renewal

#7

Post by idigrust » Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:27 am

Should be able to join fo $10.00 and have access to the downloadable magazines and roster. Nothing sent in mail, my 2 cents.
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Re: BCCA Renewal

#8

Post by kb » Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:39 am

i used to always join, let it lapse, re join, let it laspe re join, or buy back a bunch of their back issues and read them all in a day, always liked the post Canvention issue.. but really havent thought about re-upping in the longest and guess I get all need from RB ( of course !! ) and facebook pages etc... havent seen the computer RB page in a while, always use tapa talk on phone, noticing all these new things BEEN THANKED , GIVING THANKS, thumps up etc.. so now I Get to see how I stand with a new post .. THANKED
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Re: BCCA Renewal

#9

Post by josh » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:02 pm

I'm not a member and I've managed to somehow get through each day, and still go to a Canvention as a guest if desired. Has nothing to do with money... Jim, give it a shot and if you find the world ended and cone tops are no longer available and everyone hates you then re-up.
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Re: BCCA Renewal

#10

Post by JustJoe » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:24 pm

idigrust wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:27 am
Should be able to join fo $10.00 and have access to the downloadable magazines and roster. Nothing sent in mail, my 2 cents.
I’m with you there, I’ld gladly pay $15.00 for downloadable magazine, roster and access to reference section. Would join tomorrow ! I could see there membership doubling if they had a two tier membership ? My 4 cents worth. Well I’m kinda borrowing idigrust’s 2 cents (thanks man) and adding my 2 . :smt023

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Re: BCCA Renewal

#11

Post by gorrister » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:05 pm

I guess I’m in the minority. I’m a member. Joined when I got back into the hobby about 3 years ago. I’m a member of 5 chapters, the Atlantic, Richbrau, Pickwick, Rusty Bunch and Quarts R Us. The first 2 because I’m smack in between them, the Pickwick because it’s the focus of my collection, the Rusty Bunch because of this forum and the Quarts because it’s another focus. I’m very happy with what I get for my money in all cases and do feel an obligation to help support the hobby I love. I have met friends from and because of all the chapters I’m in as well as the BCCA itself. Could I collect and not be a member? Sure, but membership enriches my life and collection far greater, to me, than the small monetary cost.

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Re: BCCA Renewal

#12

Post by MI-Cans » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:19 pm

I re-upped back when I retired in 2006. Got my original number back...no fee involved. Thought I could get caught up on the Hobby through the magazines and such. I've been an outspoken critic of the organization since them. At least until the current "new" website surfaced. They definitely are on the right track. I say "are" because they've got lots of room for improvement.

Yes, they've digitized Volume I & Volume II with continuing additions and updates. I honestly believe that the Supplement crew doesn't get enough recognition or praise for the dedication and time they put in to make it the best reference on the planet. And I am not leaving out the folks working on the New Cans Supplement which I like to refer to as Volume III. As of this post, they have logged and pictured more than 22,000 cans!! I would hate to collect currents without having a specific niche.

When you log into the BCCA website, they offer a link to Back Issues. Total of 17 issues available for members to view/download. (There’s the current issue, 15 issues from July/August 2018 through March/April 2016 and 1 issue from February/March 2007.) My research puts the total number of magazine issues at 283. When do we get the remaining 266 issues added to the archive? Or is that something that will never happen?

Another reason I re-upped was I wanted to continue adding to my CANvention can set I had started way back when. If I couldn't find one at one of the local shows I'm able to attend, I could always order one through the office. I was able to make it to the Fort Wayne CANv for just that Saturday of the event. Even though it was for just a couple of hours, I really enjoyed the event and the people. I've told several people that my traveling days are over. I am able to get away for three local shows, WinterFest, SummerSwap & Toledo.

So, do I get my $40 worth? Probably not. I do enjoy the magazine. I do enjoy the online reference material, such as the Roster, the Event Calendar, the Back Issues, the Supplements, etc. And I really enjoy the people I come in contact with through the organization. Am I satisfied or happy with the organization? Probably not. I'll still find things to complain about because I know that some things could still be a lot better.

I like and would support the concept everything downloadable with no hard copies at a reduced rate for membership.

My $0.02.

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Re: BCCA Renewal

#13

Post by conesplus » Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:58 pm

This is my personal opinion.
I have not belonged to the bcca for at least 15 years. I could not, and still can not stand the politics.
I have not missed canvention. Waaay too costly to only get a few cans.
I would much rather go to other shows that are much, much, much more fruitful, and cost much, much, much less.
It's a no brainer!
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Re: BCCA Renewal

#14

Post by Scott » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:56 am

I let my membership lapse back around 2013 primarily out of protest because the BCCA would not hold ANY canventions on the west coast. At the time I also wrote an open letter (posted here) to the officers of the club voicing my reasons. While I hold no illusions that my letter had any great impact in the decision, to their credit the BCCA did hold a Canvention in Portland several years later. I promptly rejoined, got my old number back (at no charge) and have been a member since.

I'll continue to remain a member so long as the BCCA occasionally holds a Canvention in the Western U.S. I understand that with the demographics of the membership, the majority are going to be in the east and Midwest and am fine with that. The club membership is relatively low compared to many similar organizations and if $40 is what it costs to cover the operating expenses so be it. That's less than a tank of gas or dinner and a couple drinks with the wife.
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Re: BCCA Renewal

#15

Post by foreigncanman » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:24 am

The BCCA in the future is what we make it. I agree on the idea of a discounted membership eroster e magazine perhaps could cut costs to half . This would be especially good for overseas members due to shipping costs plus most of them don't attend convention. With the great work being done with the website (thanks to Dan and all others involved) the BCCA could become the ultimate resource for information. The database of US cans is always growing and there are plans to start a database for foreign cans. I have a database of 5000 old cans including 8000 pictures. Hopefully we can eventually branch out to document all things breweriana in the future as well. It is a slow daunting task but with effort it will hopefully make the club more attractive.

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Re: BCCA Renewal

#16

Post by foreigncanman » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:30 am

MI-Cans wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:19 pm
I re-upped back when I retired in 2006. Got my original number back...no fee involved. Thought I could get caught up on the Hobby through the magazines and such. I've been an outspoken critic of the organization since them. At least until the current "new" website surfaced. They definitely are on the right track. I say "are" because they've got lots of room for improvement.

Yes, they've digitized Volume I & Volume II with continuing additions and updates. I honestly believe that the Supplement crew doesn't get enough recognition or praise for the dedication and time they put in to make it the best reference on the planet. And I am not leaving out the folks working on the New Cans Supplement which I like to refer to as Volume III. As of this post, they have logged and pictured more than 22,000 cans!! I would hate to collect currents without having a specific niche.

When you log into the BCCA website, they offer a link to Back Issues. Total of 17 issues available for members to view/download. (There’s the current issue, 15 issues from July/August 2018 through March/April 2016 and 1 issue from February/March 2007.) My research puts the total number of magazine issues at 283. When do we get the remaining 266 issues added to the archive? Or is that something that will never happen?

Another reason I re-upped was I wanted to continue adding to my CANvention can set I had started way back when. If I couldn't find one at one of the local shows I'm able to attend, I could always order one through the office. I was able to make it to the Fort Wayne CANv for just that Saturday of the event. Even though it was for just a couple of hours, I really enjoyed the event and the people. I've told several people that my traveling days are over. I am able to get away for three local shows, WinterFest, SummerSwap & Toledo.

So, do I get my $40 worth? Probably not. I do enjoy the magazine. I do enjoy the online reference material, such as the Roster, the Event Calendar, the Back Issues, the Supplements, etc. And I really enjoy the people I come in contact with through the organization. Am I satisfied or happy with the organization? Probably not. I'll still find things to complain about because I know that some things could still be a lot better.

I like and would support the concept everything downloadable with no hard copies at a reduced rate for membership.

My $0.02.

(MI-Cans)
The work done on supplements volume 1 2 and "3" is remarkable. I find it takes about 3 hours or so do do a case of cans for our database. (5 picture of each photoshoppong and entering data. ) The numbers of hours involved are staggering.

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Re: BCCA Renewal

#17

Post by Longhorn Mike » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:49 pm

I joined in 1980 at the age of 11 and have been a member ever since.

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Re: BCCA Renewal

#18

Post by rusteditor » Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:08 pm

I joined the BCCA in 1977 and have been a member since. While the Rusty Bunch is my main focus I have got a lot out of the hobby over the years. I consider the $40 a small price to pay for what I have got out of it.

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Re: BCCA Renewal

#19

Post by kruegerbock » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:59 am

I joined the BCCA in 1976 and let my membership lapse in 1980 when I went to college (my parents may have paid my dues for a year or two after that). I rejoined in 1988 or so upon finding out that the CANvention was coming to NJ in 1990 and have been a member ever since. As most of you know, I was a board member and went through the chairs, becoming BCCA President in 2016.

I don't understand the $40 argument at all. That's my bar bill for a decent night of craft beer drinking, and it's less than you pay to fill the gas tank in your truck prior to going dumping.

I completely understand the frustration with the glacial pace at which the BCCA implements change, and that lifetime committee members and board members are able to effectively form coalitions to completely thwart or slow play any efforts by more progressive board members to more broadly serve the interests of the membership.

Simple demographics ensure that the Rusty Bunch is the future of the hobby and the BCCA - look at the average age of a Rusty Bunch member. One of things I tried to do from day one on the board was to get more integration between the guys who do all the work for the RB and the national organization. I explicitly stated this during Rusty Bunch meetings. I am sure that there was/is a hard core element in both groups that was not pleased by my efforts. But it happened anyway.

The RB and club members were presented with a golden opportunity to send the national organization a message when on-line voting for board members was made available this year. Something like 200 people attend the GBM at CANvention and can vote in person. And yet fewer than 50 people voted on line, and the election results were predictable, and disappointing to me.

So you (the RB) already has the power to move things forward. You just have to use it.
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Re: BCCA Renewal

#20

Post by ConeAddict » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:53 pm

What is the BCCA doing to promote the long term viability of the hobby? $40 isn't that much but I missed canvention again this year and it was only a few hours away so if I am not getting to that I would like to know my forty bucks is doing more for the hobby than having a yearly get together. I like the magazines fine but there is so much more info and interesting stuff right here I think I could live without it. I feel like my $10 here at RB is well spent but like conehead saw my invoice recently and wondered whether it is worth it anymore.

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Re: BCCA Renewal

#21

Post by Sea Monkey » Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:36 pm

ConeAddict wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:53 pm
What is the BCCA doing to promote the long term viability of the hobby? $40 isn't that much but I missed canvention again this year and it was only a few hours away so if I am not getting to that I would like to know my forty bucks is doing more for the hobby than having a yearly get together. I like the magazines fine but there is so much more info and interesting stuff right here I think I could live without it. I feel like my $10 here at RB is well spent but like conehead saw my invoice recently and wondered whether it is worth it anymore.
If nothing else I feel like my $40 is at minimum me committing to the hobby. I treat it as a donation of support to a hobby I love and treat the magazine and everything else as “gravy.” Believe it or not there are people that vehemently complain about the $10 here. They see it as only “getting” access to the members section and sales over what they can get for free. Again, I would pay the $10 even if there were no additional benefits. I love this hobby and I try to support in any small way I can.....
Just my $0.02
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Re: BCCA Renewal

#22

Post by ConeAddict » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:41 pm

Sea Monkey wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:36 pm

If nothing else I feel like my $40 is at minimum me committing to the hobby. I treat it as a donation of support to a hobby I love and treat the magazine and everything else as “gravy.” Believe it or not there are people that vehemently complain about the $10 here. They see it as only “getting” access to the members section and sales over what they can get for free. Again, I would pay the $10 even if there were no additional benefits. I love this hobby and I try to support in any small way I can.....
Just my $0.02
Sure that is why I have payed as well, just dues for being in the hobby. But if the majority of that $40 goes to the magazine and the Canvention maybe there is better way I can spend my money to help the hobby. I haven't been in here for a while and just noticed the longer thread about why do we need new collectors but I am on the side of we need them and should find better ways to at least get all those 40 and 50 somethings who haven't bee reborn yet back in.

Maybe booking Kansas or Cheap Trick for next years Canvention? :razz:

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Re: BCCA Renewal

#23

Post by kamsquared » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:55 pm

Right now it's $40 for a year or they give you the option to pay $120 for 3 years..... I ain't no math-crustacean, but seems like if they are keeping my money for 2 additional years, they could knock off a couple of bucks.
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jinsequa
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Re: BCCA Renewal

#24

Post by jinsequa » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:52 am

I think the money is well worth it for the online info alone.
The only negative I have run into is that I was asked by a BCCA indiividual for some info on some cans I had for the BCCA magazine which I promptly provided but then when I asked in return for some information about the process to submit an article to the magazine I only recieved crickets in reply. Almost felt like I was invading their turf or something? Nice when I had something they wanted, didn't give a **** once they got it.
A+++ for on online ......F on inclusiveness-being welcoming-not petty
Just my 2 cents.
Eric
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kruegerbock
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Re: BCCA Renewal

#25

Post by kruegerbock » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:57 am

Just to clear up one potential misconception - CANvention is accounted for separately from general club operations, and fully funded by CANvention registration and other CANvention fees (tables, banquets, etc.). While all the money is technically in one bank account, yearly dues do not pay for or subsidize CANvention in any way.
-Al Aprea

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Mark (expired)
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Re: BCCA Renewal

#26

Post by Mark (expired) » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:59 am

$40... compare to the cost of: a tank of gas -or- dinner with the amazing wife -or- parking at the University for a month -or- zip top from Japan …

Very happy with the value - enjoy the magazine - heck my dog made the cover (still laugh at that - and just received MidKnight's BCCA membership diploma!), really enjoy the comradery, the website, the USBC vI and vII online (and I don't collect that many US cans). I am not sure I think $40 gets me CANvention as the cost of attending is a whole different consideration for me? Ran for the Board of Directors three times, thanks for honoring me with "your" votes as I was blessed to serve twice - might try again if I can find the time? Advocated then and now for spreading the CANventions across the US and Canada. Been a staunch member since 1990 (or 91?) collecting since 1976.

But... definitely do not agree with everything that every facet of the BCCA does - yes politics - yes "variety" of opinions - and try to remind myself daily that I am far from perfect. BUT ... I also do not agree with how the taxes are used when I fill up the gas tank, not sure my dinner will be exactly what it looked and sounded like on the menu and the server may be too quick to take the plates, I have to pay for parking where I work, and $40 for an empty steel beer can that if they made a 1,000,000, likely 999,990 were tossed in the trash?

I am also a member of ABCCA, CELCE, ACCCA, ABA, ... and BY FAR the BCCA is the membership I get the most out of - but probably because it is the club I put the most into?
Expired once again in Portland ...
Still musing about cans

MI-Cans
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Re: BCCA Renewal

#27

Post by MI-Cans » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:51 am

I think it's obvious that the $40 is comparable with other organizations. It's also obvious that everyone has their own ideas as to whether it's worth it.

I AM opposed to those lifetime positions and appointments within the BCCA hierarchy. That's the best recipe for stagnation and complacency.

I'd like to see the organization grow a pair. Let's do an online survey of BCCA members. Announce in the magazine (which everyone gets) that there's going to be an online member's survey to get a feel for WHAT THE MEMBERSHIP feels about certain topics or ideas that can impact the hobby for the future. Put in a full page ad in one month announcing the online survey. Let it (the survey) run for thirty days. Answers can be multiple choice. Announce the result in the following issue. Oh yeah, have the results independently certified. Not that we don't trust the leadership, we just don't trust the leadership.

Questions could range from Officer & Committee term limits, hard copy or downloadable copies of publications, do we feel we get our money's worth for our dues, are you satisfied with how CANvention sites are picked, do you like the three sections (domestic, Canadian & Foreign) of current cans releases, etc. The list could be endless. You could have each Chapter submit questions that their membership feels would be worthy of asking the entire membership.

Just thinking out loud...

(MI-Cans)
Remember...Recycling is FOREVER!!

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keithker
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Re: BCCA Renewal

#28

Post by keithker » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:57 am

MI-Cans wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:51 am
I think it's obvious that the $40 is comparable with other organizations. It's also obvious that everyone has their own ideas as to whether it's worth it.

I AM opposed to those lifetime positions and appointments within the BCCA hierarchy. That's the best recipe for stagnation and complacency.

I'd like to see the organization grow a pair. Let's do an online survey of BCCA members. Announce in the magazine (which everyone gets) that there's going to be an online member's survey to get a feel for WHAT THE MEMBERSHIP feels about certain topics or ideas that can impact the hobby for the future. Put in a full page ad in one month announcing the online survey. Let it (the survey) run for thirty days. Answers can be multiple choice. Announce the result in the following issue. Oh yeah, have the results independently certified. Not that we don't trust the leadership, we just don't trust the leadership.

Questions could range from Officer & Committee term limits, hard copy or downloadable copies of publications, do we feel we get our money's worth for our dues, are you satisfied with how CANvention sites are picked, do you like the three sections (domestic, Canadian & Foreign) of current cans releases, etc. The list could be endless. You could have each Chapter submit questions that their membership feels would be worthy of asking the entire membership.

Just thinking out loud...

(MI-Cans)
@MI-Cans Ed.....I think the survey would have to be more than just online. The survey should be made available to the widest audience in hopes of receiving the greatest amount of input. Not sure how much input might be received because the average with many of these types of things is that only 10%-15% of an organization might provide input. That happens even here when it comes to online voting. Much of this is somewhat like a "climate survey" the military and many large organizations do.
There should be a period where questions are submitted, vetted and then the overall survey pushed out for input. Might be something for serious consideration.

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oldmoneytexan
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Re: BCCA Renewal

#29

Post by oldmoneytexan » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:50 am

All the whining on this post reminded me why I like the BCCA and to renew my membership.

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renokenn
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Re: BCCA Renewal

#30

Post by renokenn » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:18 pm

I just renewed my BCCA membership. I'll renew my ABA and Rusty Bunch when the time comes. This even though I no longer actively collect nor am able to attend shows, not even when they're 30 miles away. This hobby has given me great pleasure and my interest has not waned so I will support it as much as I can. That's all I have to say about that.
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