Rolled Cans

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Rolled Cans

#1

Post by dtsoc » Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:54 pm

I am interested in the perspective of the group on rolled cans. In the soda side, there are quite a few cans that only exist rolled, with less than one or two non-rolled examples. While this is only a sample, many of these are only available rolled. The one exception is the Cellu can - there are 3 on-grade examples and a a few other dumpers. How do collectors view rolled cans that are not really available as original filled cans? Do you see similar examples in beer cans? DT
Rolled Cans 2018.jpg


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Re: Rolled Cans

#2

Post by Conehead » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:33 pm

Good question Dave.

There was a pretty in depth discussion about rolled cans over 10 years ago here. I'd be interested if the thinking has changed since then.

Here is the thread in question.

http://www.therustybunch.com/phpBB3/vie ... ed#p277586

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Re: Rolled Cans

#3

Post by pinnacle-project » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:46 pm

I try to avoid rolled cans. I also try to avoid non-original tops or bottoms. If Grandpa removed a top from a can so he could store nuts in his shop, I don't want that can if it is left without a top and I don't want that can with a replaced top. Despite being picky in this manor, I am okay with rust. I just want the can to be all original. Almost forgot, I don't like touch ups either.
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Re: Rolled Cans

#4

Post by BrooklynBeer » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:51 pm

You display, you enjoy it. It is only your opinion that matters of what you choose to display and enjoy. If all you can find is a professionally rolled flat and it fills the want then why care what anyone else thinks. Your collection.

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Re: Rolled Cans

#5

Post by willssoda » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:16 pm

I'm thinking it may go deeper than rolled or incorrect lid. The fact that the design / paint was from that canner then filled or not I think it should be considered part of the history of that brand. Now if someone created some outside of the original canner then that's different but if it came from the correct canner, is the correct graphic, etc then it shouldn't matter. Just my opinion. Again so long as it was actually created by that company or for that company
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Re: Rolled Cans

#6

Post by Sea Monkey » Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:35 am

I look at rolled cans as inferior. I am looking for original. That being said I will buy rolled cans if I can’t get original. I would put a grade 2/2+ all original can on my shelf and take down a grade1 rolled can of the same label. I DO have a few on my shelves though. Just my opinion......
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Re: Rolled Cans

#7

Post by canhawk » Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:37 am

I separate cans into two groups: those altered by the maker/drinker/user, and those altered by collectors. I don't seek rolled cans or flat sheets, only original cans. Original flats that have tops removed by the original user, with gear marks along the rim, don't bother me. I like early tabs where the drinker opened them with a church key. These are all individual preferences, with exceptions, not ironclad laws. I do have three tab cans with no bottoms, never filled, and thought I should have proper lids attached.
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Re: Rolled Cans

#8

Post by ConeAddict » Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:15 pm

I like cans that were filled with beer and used. Part of the cool thing about collecting beer cans to me is the social aspect of alcohol and the history of it, I like to think maybe a couple of guys were sitting around in Milwaukee arguing about the war in Europe in 1940 while drinking from those Schlitz cones on my shelf. I am still shocked at how much that rolled Kuebler Bock got in the auction recently.

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Re: Rolled Cans

#9

Post by jinsequa » Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:25 pm

The only rolled cans I buy are ones that don’t come in a production model or cans that are uber rare. Prefer the correct lids and height but sometimes you have no choice if you want that rare can.

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Re: Rolled Cans

#10

Post by clark » Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:44 pm

I have a minor preference for an original can, but I don't mind a rolled one, as long as it was done well.

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Re: Rolled Cans

#11

Post by gorrister » Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:13 am

I want mine to be all original and to have contained beer. Don’t want coin top or air filled any more than I’d want a rolled can. Just my preference.

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Re: Rolled Cans

#12

Post by HiNeighbor » Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:21 am

Life is too short. Don't overanalyze it. If you enjoy something who cares what others think
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Re: Rolled Cans

#13

Post by Wrestling Nut » Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:15 pm

Everyone wants a bottom opened, perfect, filled, used, and super rare can first and foremost.

After that, it gets complicated. Do whatever you like. Have fun. Enjoy the ride.

Oh, and thanks for the pic. I'm sure those are all great. I just don't know anything about soda cans, so I cannot fully appreciate them but thanks anyhow.

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Re: Rolled Cans

#14

Post by mtracy64 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:04 pm

The biggest problem I have with rolled cans is the fact that many collectors don't like them. This has a significant impact on the value and makes them difficult to move if you upgrade or change direction as far as what you collect. So, I avoid them except in extreme cases. I have one - a variation on the Kamm's J-Spout. I'm only aware of two all-original cans, both ongrade. I got the rolled example for about 1/4 of the value of the original cans, so I can live with it on those terms, but I'd happily replace it with a decent dumper if I could.

In the realm of the cans I collect, air-sealed cans are either can company salesman's sample cans or point-of-sale advertising pieces, and I consider both just as good as cans that were filled. Plus, if someone put a period-correct opener hole in one of these cans, you'd never know it hadn't been filled.

I don't like re-lidded cans, especially if the original lid was removed and the can has gear marks. If I can't get an all-original can, I'm not opposed to a lidless can. The only re-lidding I can condone is on cans that never got filled and lidded, and on cans that were dented to the point that a lid had to be removed to fix the dents. But, all of the dealers will tell you that cans without a lid don't sell, so I guess many collectors prefer gear marks and a new lid over gear marks and the original rim.

The only bank top can I would put in my collection is the Krueger Bock OI from Can Dr.'s "Bank Heist" find.

I agree with Greg's comment about not overanalyzing, but would add something about not overpaying too.

Marc

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Re: Rolled Cans

#15

Post by Leon » Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:21 pm

about 10 years ago I seen a nice clean rolled about mint Zeigler's cone get about $2,500 on ebay. Soon after I see a nice clean grade 1 original Zeigler's on ebay get about $1000. To me I thought the prices seemed backwards. LEON.
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Re: Rolled Cans

#16

Post by foreigncanman » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:34 am

Sometimes rolled cans are the only way available. Other times there are test cans. I would take a 1- original over a rolled can. Some would n ot collect them at all. There is no absolute consensus way of pricing these cans but often 25-50 percent depending upon availability of original cans.

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Re: Rolled Cans

#17

Post by jwcans » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:52 am

I don't have a problem with rolled cans. A quick story. I had a find of pretty good sheets around 5 years ago. One of the sheets was a DeSoto. At Canvention in Dallas that year. Dan Morean had a very nice one. Really no discernable flaws. However, if you took his can, and set it side by side with the can I had ( Art had rolled it ) You'd damn near had to say it was a grade better. The colors were so much stronger all around, that it just popped.

May of the cans in the hobby haven't been kept as well as they could have. Over exposure to old fluorescent basement lighting. Not protected from sunlight filtering in over the years. That old dehumidifier that didn't get ran, or emptied as often as it should have. All reasons why finding clean cans is becoming more and more different.

Clean sheet cans, can't be matched. Sure I 'd love an all original, but since I like the best example I can get. Rolled cans are gonna be tough to beat.

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Re: Rolled Cans

#18

Post by oldmoneytexan » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:33 am

I prefer all original cans, but to my knowledge, none of these tabs have ever been found in the wild. I do believe someone has found 102 Draft tabs in the wild, but I cannot confirm.

Busch tab top is 10 oz, and the Falstaff is 11 oz from El Paso.

rolledtabs.jpg

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Re: Rolled Cans

#19

Post by jwcans » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:49 pm

oldmoneytexan I think Bob LaVelle found two of the Red Caps, in a garage collection in midstate Illinois. Although I guess I'm not positive they weren't rolled.

I've also heard rumors of outdoor 102's, but NO confirmation. The originals came from the brewery files, I'm skeptical of others existing

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Re: Rolled Cans

#20

Post by oldmoneytexan » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:17 pm

jwcans wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:49 pm
oldmoneytexan I think Bob LaVelle found two of the Red Caps, in a garage collection in midstate Illinois. Although I guess I'm not positive they weren't rolled.

I've also heard rumors of outdoor 102's, but NO confirmation. The originals came from the brewery files, I'm skeptical of others existing

JW, mine is one of Bob's cans that was a flat sheet rolled by Art. The other may have been factory sealed, but I don't recall seeing the seam.

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Re: Rolled Cans

#21

Post by Bob L » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:53 pm

I came up with two of the Red cap cans. One was an intact air-filled zip, and one was a flat sheet. I sold the can to Dan Morean and the flat sheet to OMT, who then had Art roll it. I don't know enough to say whether the air-sealed can was rolled or not. Attached are a few pictures of the can and the sheet. If it was rolled, it would have been decades ago, as this collection had been dormant since the late 70's or early 80's.
Attachments
redcapsheet.JPG
jgfranknredcap1.JPG
PICT0988.JPG

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Re: Rolled Cans

#22

Post by beerhunter14 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:58 pm

This is interesting topic. But I do have a couple of question. Can you tell a different between a rolled can and a air seal can ?? To me look the same. :smt017
About the Red Cap can. I think I believe it a test can.. I was interesting in it but at that time, I didn't have enough cash to buy it. as I seen it on Steel Canvas . This was a few years ago back.

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Re: Rolled Cans

#23

Post by jwcans » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:05 am

Looking at what Bob posted, would initially make me think it was a factory roll job. Really need to see that seam in hand to say. Looks to be a glue seam? What is yours Edward?

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Re: Rolled Cans

#24

Post by oldmoneytexan » Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:38 pm

jwcans wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:05 am
Looking at what Bob posted, would initially make me think it was a factory roll job. Really need to see that seam in hand to say. Looks to be a glue seam? What is yours Edward?
Art did a great job on the glued seam.
RedCapSeam.jpg

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Re: Rolled Cans

#25

Post by JAL » Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:36 pm

oldmoneytexan wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:38 pm
jwcans wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:05 am
Looking at what Bob posted, would initially make me think it was a factory roll job. Really need to see that seam in hand to say. Looks to be a glue seam? What is yours Edward?
Art did a great job on the glued seam.

RedCapSeam.jpg
But he put a Continental Can Company (CCC) top onto a Keglined (American Can Company) marked sheet... :smt022 At least use the correct donor top if your rolling a can. Bob's can has the correct zip for an American Can Company (Keglined) sheet.

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Re: Rolled Cans

#26

Post by oldmoneytexan » Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:41 pm

JAL wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:36 pm
oldmoneytexan wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:38 pm
jwcans wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:05 am
Looking at what Bob posted, would initially make me think it was a factory roll job. Really need to see that seam in hand to say. Looks to be a glue seam? What is yours Edward?
Art did a great job on the glued seam.

RedCapSeam.jpg
But he put a Continental Can Company (CCC) top onto a Keglined (American Can Company) marked sheet... :smt022 At least use the correct donor top if your rolling a can. Bob's can has the correct zip for an American Can Company (Keglined) sheet.
Hard to find gold lid zips with the zip intact. I was just happy to find one and didn't (don't) care if it's the correct canning company lid.

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