Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

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Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#1

Post by keithker » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:32 pm

Ok fellow RB hobbyists....time to sit down and sort through all your zip tops...

Please help contribute to this effort to put together a much needed tool to have in all of our beer can collectors toolkit.

Somebody has taken the time to put together this amazing baseline zip top composite list.......we need to take this list to the next level and focus on putting together the best product available for all of us t use.

Please take the time to add any information possible. I've added additional columns to include canning companies and canning codes.

Please provide your input below in the forum using the input version. The original is password protected to ensure it does not become corrupt......

Original (Protected Version)
ZIP COMPOSITE Protected v1.xlsx
(69.5 KiB) Downloaded 32 times
Use this one for updating composite list
ZIP COMPOSITE for input.xlsx
(18.12 KiB) Downloaded 44 times



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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#2

Post by cantankerous » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:54 pm

I have almost 400 zips....this could take awhile...
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LOOKING FOR BETTER TABS and ZIPS!!

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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#3

Post by keithker » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:57 pm

cantankerous wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:54 pm
I have almost 400 zips....this could take awhile...
Look forward to any support you can provide......

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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#4

Post by oldmoneytexan » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:00 pm

Is there a way to print that? When I open the 10,11, 12 page, and hit "print", it only offers to print what's in the scene, not the entire document.

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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#5

Post by keithker » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:13 pm

oldmoneytexan wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:00 pm
Is there a way to print that? When I open the 10,11, 12 page, and hit "print", it only offers to print what's in the scene, not the entire document.
@oldmoneytexan Edward....I've split out the tabs so not sure what happened. I sent you a copy of the original to print. Please use the update version to add if possible. I'll then merge that with the original........

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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#6

Post by oldmoneytexan » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:33 pm

I have a few zips that I know aren't in the book. Peoples ( yellow like the flat), San Juan Cerveza (white like the flat) Rams Head Ale from Valley Forge 112-16, Lone Star 88-22, and Milwaukee Premium dogbone that looks similar to 94-26. Also know there are at least 3 or 4 Hamms zips from Houston, both aluminum and SS.

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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#7

Post by oldmoneytexan » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:36 pm

Awesome list, by the way. Whoever put this together did an amazing job. Thank you!

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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#8

Post by idigrust » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:09 pm

Here's how to print entire workbook

excel.png
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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#9

Post by oldmoneytexan » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:12 pm

Dan, I don't have that option. Perhaps because I'm Apple?

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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#10

Post by oldmoneytexan » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:22 pm

Screen.jpg

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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#11

Post by keithker » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:43 pm

@oldmoneytexan Edward....here is a .pdf version....that should be able to get you over that "apple" roadblock.....
ZIP COMPOSITE.pdf
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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#12

Post by idigrust » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:45 pm

try this
Click the tab for the first sheet. Then, hold down SHIFT and click the tab for the last sheet that you want to select.
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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#13

Post by oldmoneytexan » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:52 pm

keithker wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:43 pm
@oldmoneytexan Edward....here is a .pdf version....that should be able to get you over that "apple" roadblock.....

ZIP COMPOSITE.pdf
That worked. Thanks Keith!

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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#14

Post by Carl S » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:23 pm

For a refresher, can someone confirm which tops are considered Zip Tops? I see a couple in the composite that I think only came in Fan Tabs.

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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#15

Post by oldmoneytexan » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:40 pm

According to most, if it had a "ring" to pull, it wasn't a zip. Zip had "buttons". Even thought the most collectible zip is a "finger ripper".

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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#16

Post by idigrust » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:37 pm

Lift TAB and pull.
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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#17

Post by Scott Rollert » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:20 pm

I will go over the zips from Colorado. There are some in the USBC book that are not in the CO composite. Can't verify them.

This composite list will be a great asset!
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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#18

Post by keithker » Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:43 am

Additional details on the original composite.......That file was assembled entirely from the USBC Volume II book. It's not only the cans identified by a single "Z" but also those cans with a "Z" and any other letter.

Is every one marked with a Z in the USBC II validated? It is likely almost every one was as they were cataloged. But, this is our chance to ensure all the information is valid and built upon.

Definition wise I was hoping to be able to pull the terms used in USBC 2 along with images but sadly was unable to find them online. We'd welcome a chance for somebody to post the complete terminology and definitions including graphics or images if possible......

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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#19

Post by MI-Cans » Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:02 am

Don't know if this'll help. Put this together using info from Kamsquared's great work in the reference section.

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Picture pulled because it may possibly contain erroneous information.
Last edited by MI-Cans on Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#20

Post by Scott Rollert » Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:35 am

With the CO list, I delineated the zips into zip lids and U-tabs (as denoted on the lids).
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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#21

Post by pinnacle-project » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:57 am

That's a nice pictorial summary of the different variations. I do not recall ever seeing the narrow version of the dog bone before. Maybe that's because they are uncommon or maybe because I do not collect tabs. Thanks for putting this together.
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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#22

Post by oldmoneytexan » Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:05 pm

pinnacle-project wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:57 am
That's a nice pictorial summary of the different variations. I do not recall ever seeing the narrow version of the dog bone before. Maybe that's because they are uncommon or maybe because I do not collect tabs. Thanks for putting this together.

There's an article about them in the BCCA tab book on page 10. VERY short production lid. There are 3 or 4 that need to be added to the list.

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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#23

Post by JAL » Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:44 pm

I'm sorry but I do not agree with that photo. The Gen 2 and Gen 3 your showing are actually just different canning companies style of rolled edge tab from the same era. All of the "Gen III" are actually shown are Continental zip tabs, which the variances being the stamping of the "instructions" and "pats pending". You could split that into Gen IV and Gen V...

To me, Gen I, finger ripper, no instructions
Gen II, finger ripper, instructions
Gen III era, you get into the smiley bead tops, but American and Continental distinctly different styles. The Crown Cork and Seal zip was identical to Americans, but stamped the Crown emblem onto the pull. I would have to check, but believe National and Heekin zips of that era pretty much mirrored the same top as American, and all dog bone zips are from American Canning Company. The actual top of the National and Heekin I believe may be stamped differently than Americans, but pretty sure the actual zip pull looked the same. I would need to pull some cans to confirm.

You guys focusing on zips need to make sure the top matches what the canning company actually used. I've seen too many on grade re-lidded zips, especially using a Continental lid on an American can, and vice versa.

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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#24

Post by oldmoneytexan » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:11 pm

JAL wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:44 pm
I'm sorry but I do not agree with that photo. The Gen 2 and Gen 3 your showing are actually just different canning companies style of rolled edge tab from the same era. All of the "Gen III" are actually shown are Continental zip tabs, which the variances being the stamping of the "instructions" and "pats pending". You could split that into Gen IV and Gen V...

To me, Gen I, finger ripper, no instructions
Gen II, finger ripper, instructions
Gen III era, you get into the smiley bead tops, but American and Continental distinctly different styles. The Crown Cork and Seal zip was identical to Americans, but stamped the Crown emblem onto the pull. I would have to check, but believe National and Heekin zips of that era pretty much mirrored the same top as American, and all dog bone zips are from American Canning Company. The actual top of the National and Heekin I believe may be stamped differently than Americans, but pretty sure the actual zip pull looked the same. I would need to pull some cans to confirm.

You guys focusing on zips need to make sure the top matches what the canning company actually used. I've seen too many on grade re-lidded zips, especially using a Continental lid on an American can, and vice versa.

Interesting. I learn something every day if I pay attention.

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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#25

Post by MI-Cans » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:48 pm

Thanks to JAL for enlightening this project with his apparent knowledge of the subject matter. Somewhat echoing Edward's comment, we're all here to share and learn.

It would be great if JAL could step up and work with the creators of the Tab Composite in the Reference Section to assure those using it would be getting accurate information. And if he has pictures and/or documentation on the subject matter, that would be an even bigger bonus!

Face it. We've all got generic information related to this hobby of ours. You see it all the time in these posts. Any tidbit of legitimate info gets gobbled up. It just makes the Hobby, the Chapter and the Website stronger and better all around.

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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#26

Post by Scott Rollert » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:12 pm

I got the chance to go through the zips of Colorado and compare the CO composite to what the USBC tab book lists. There are some discrepancies between the two.

The original composite list was done by the late Walter Herget. He was the first collector to scrutinize his Colorado cans and start a composite list. In 2012, I used his original version and converted it into a digital format (Excel spreadsheet). Since then I've doubled his content as I continued finding and documenting new cans. His original list included zip tops, although he didn't specify the type of zip. On my list, I do denote zips and U-tabs. I consider the U-tab as a zip top (Lift Tab as opposed to Lift Ring). The zip top lids are the later generation with beads around the opening.

The following cans are verified by both the composite and tab book:
Beckers #38-31 zip Am. Can Co.
Denver with Tivoli on label #58-32 U-Tab CCC40
Hi En Brau #76-11 zip and U-Tab CCC40
Kol #86-12 zip and U-Tab CCC40
Mile Hi #94-1 zip CCC40
Tivoli #130-19 zip Am. Can Co.
Walters #133-24 zip and U-Tab CCC40
Walters Bock 133-26 zip and U-Tab CCC40

The following cans are listed in the book but I have no verification of for the composite list:
Mile Hi #93-40 This label followed the eagle label and is too new for a zip top.
Silver Peak #124-37 Not on original list and never verified as a zip.
Top Hat #130-26 Not on original list and never verified as a zip.
Winchester Malt Liquor #135-12 Not on original list and never verified as a zip.
Winchester Stout Malt Liquor #135-13 Not on original list and never verified as a zip.
*Note: the Winchester cans are inadvertently listed on the current composite list as zips. They will be removed with the next update.
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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#27

Post by keithker » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:31 pm

@Scott Rollert Good point on these. Should a column be added to the master zip top composite list to add "verified"?

@MI-Cans @oldmoneytexan @chicagocans @JAL @kamsquared and others....until a consensus is formed on the type of tab should we simple put U Tab and Zip Top and include them in the same composite list.....

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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#28

Post by MI-Cans » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:17 pm

From what I've read on pages 24-25 of the BCCA book, they apparently classify 3 tab generations, Zip, Ring, Stay. Their glossary on page 25 states:

ZIP TAB - Any of the "First Generation" pull tabs, in use from 1962 through 1965, opened by grasping, lifting, and pulling a RINGLESS tab.

RING TAB - "Second Generation" pull tab, introduced in 1965 and characterized by the addition of a ring to the tab portion, allowing the user to insert a finger through the ring for additional leverage in the opening process. In use until replaced by the Stay-Tab in the late 1970s.

If the can is missing the actual pull mechanism, dating the can would be the only way to know if is a Zip Slot tab or a Ring Slot tab. If the opener is intact and has a tab it should be a Zip Slot. If the opener is intact and has a ring it should be a Ring Slot. That's my understanding of it.

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Scott Rollert
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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#29

Post by Scott Rollert » Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:07 pm

Personally, I think a verified column is a good idea. Case in point, on the Colorado composite discussion thread, a pic of a Denver zip top (not U-Tab) is shown. It's a rolled can from a proof sheet ( per Dave Tanner) that had a later generation zip lid rolled on. Never was a marketed can. I will not add a new can to the CO list without verification.
The federal tax code is 10 times bigger than the Bible with none of the good news
Brewed in the Heart of the Snowclad Rockies
Looking for Lucky Lager with the date 2-3-58. Will trade heavy for one...
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ThreeRing
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Re: Baseline Zip Top Composite List.......

#30

Post by ThreeRing » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:03 pm

Keith

Where do you want us to send updated excel worksheets?
Charlie B.

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