Tough Hi Pro cones with USBC <$1000+ value

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Re: Tough Hi Pro cones with USBC <$1000+ value

#31

Post by Leon » Wed May 16, 2018 7:54 pm

ConeAddict wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 12:48 pm
huberman wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 11:11 pm
20180515_200637.jpgI have the burger cone 155-21 in my collection and it was pricey. It has some interesting history though. Not likely to recoup my investment if I sell it.

-Chris

What is the history? Is it a flat with a cone on top or just a fake? Could not find the old thread on it here

I think it's legit, I think what he is saying is it's a over looked sleeper can that's underated. LEON.


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Re: Tough Hi Pro cones with USBC <$1000+ value

#32

Post by huberman » Thu May 17, 2018 12:37 am

A few theories, Todd Bakemeier, a prominent Cincinnati collector (passed away) called me up when I was bidding on it and said it was the can in the book and was convinced it was a flat with a cone added. Not sure if that is true. I won it on eBay in 2006 and and have others tell me it is the real deal. Have never seen another one since.

-Chris
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Re: Tough Hi Pro cones with USBC <$1000+ value

#33

Post by oldcrowncollector » Thu May 17, 2018 7:49 am

I say legit isn't cone body shorter and that one has lines by rims if flat top wouldn't they be in different area or gone?
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Re: Tough Hi Pro cones with USBC <$1000+ value

#34

Post by OhioCanGuy » Thu May 17, 2018 11:27 pm

huberman wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 12:37 am
A few theories, Todd Bakemeier, a prominent Cincinnati collector (passed away) called me up when I was bidding on it and said it was the can in the book and was convinced it was a flat with a cone added. Not sure if that is true. I won it on eBay in 2006 and and have others tell me it is the real deal. Have never seen another one since.

-Chris
I say legit.

Your can is in better condition than the one in the book appears to be in, so likely not the same can. If it is a flat with a cone (which it's not) it's from a flat that is not in the book as the can is different than the flat version. Height issue has been mentioned as well. Burger made both beer and ale versions of the white can and either red or green oval in the flat. So, not a stretch to assume they would have done so in the cone as well. Burger Ale cans are consistently tougher than the beer cans.

Great can!
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Re: Tough Hi Pro cones with USBC <$1000+ value

#35

Post by Matt Menghini » Fri May 18, 2018 7:26 am

It's my old can, and yes it is the same can that is in the book. I always thought it was probably real, but over the years while I had the can the views of those who looked at it were 50/50. I don't recall the canning code, but it was the same as the flat, which didn't help its chances. The first time I sold it the buyer gave it some thought and decided it was a flat and sent it back. So it is a big question mark. Could not confirm either way. Matt

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Re: Tough Hi Pro cones with USBC <$1000+ value

#36

Post by Summitcan » Fri May 18, 2018 8:56 am

can we see a pic of the reverse ?
sometimes the notches in the seam are a good clue .
To me it makes Goog Goog sense !

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Re: Tough Hi Pro cones with USBC <$1000+ value

#37

Post by Leon » Fri May 18, 2018 7:52 pm

I would think by having the flat & setting it side by side with the cone you should see certain subtle differences that should confirm it's real, or not. Has anybody ever done that before. :smt017 LEON.
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Re: Tough Hi Pro cones with USBC <$1000+ value

#38

Post by DURTBAGG » Sat May 19, 2018 12:20 am

I agree with Ohio can guy-legit. Doesn’t seem to be a stretch to me at all. Dating back to the black HP cones, they have always come in pairs, including the version with “brewed and packed by” on the face. Burger made both beer and ale oval labels in flats and the oval label beer in a cone. Why would they suddenly stop producing in pairs like that and not put out an oval labeled ale cone? Doesn’t make sense

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Re: Tough Hi Pro cones with USBC <$1000+ value

#39

Post by oldcrowncollector » Sat May 19, 2018 10:14 am

I see few differences in front on Cone all of shield looks black on flat have black have green that pic? And the "R" registered is not on Cone but on flat? Looking at pics
Last edited by oldcrowncollector on Sat May 19, 2018 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tough Hi Pro cones with USBC <$1000+ value

#40

Post by OhioCanGuy » Sat May 19, 2018 10:59 am

Leon wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 7:52 pm
I would think by having the flat & setting it side by side with the cone you should see certain subtle differences that should confirm it's real, or not. Has anybody ever done that before. :smt017 LEON.
With all due respect to everyone involved, and their opinions... I honestly don't see how anyone could think this can was the flat with a cone added. At least not the flat pictured in the USBC. UNLESS, the flat was cut down and then repainted. The "can" portion of a flat and cone are simply not the same size. If the cone in question is the same height as any other high pro cone, then it is very likely real. To get the flat to cone height, one would have to do extensive metal work and then repaint the can. Have you black lighted it?

Not having held the can, I can't attest to condition. It could have had the cone lid replaced at some point and that is what is causing concern. Again, correct height?

Below is a side by side of the beer version of this can, flat to cone. Look in the book, Ale/Beer versions are very, very similar in almost every respect. Notice the line just below/above the top/bottom rim on the can. Cutting the flat down would cause that to disappear. It looks fully intact on the Ale Cone can.

Also, as a comparison, below is the earlier IRTP Beer/Ale version of this can and later Beer/Ale flat version. As stated, Burger consistently produced both beer and ale versions for many years.

So... IMHO... if correct height and no signs of major paintwork, it's REAL.
.
.
.
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IMG_9326.JPG
IMG_9325.JPG
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Re: Tough Hi Pro cones with USBC <$1000+ value

#41

Post by Leon » Sat May 19, 2018 2:53 pm

Well, you proved my point, That's why I asked for side by side comparison. I've had this same discussion in here many times before, many years ago & every few years the same question comes up again. Anytime you put the identical cone & flat together you will see that since the cone is a shorter can it's label is slightly shrunken down to a smaller size to fit the smaller can (or spacing moved tighter) with this can all you need to do is measure the distance between the black lines at top & bottom of both cans to see they are not the same. cutting the flat down would eliminate the flats top black line.. LEON.
FAVORITE SAYING: WHY DUMP LOCALLY & FIND PROGRESS O/I's WHEN I CAN DRIVE A THOUSAND MILES AND FIND NOTHING.
NOT SO FAVORITE SAYING: SOME CRAZY RICH CLOWN OUTBID ME
ANOTHER SAYING: LIGHTS ARE ON BUT NOBODY'S HOME?

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Re: Tough Hi Pro cones with USBC <$1000+ value

#42

Post by Chris E. » Sat May 19, 2018 4:09 pm

Will somebody show the backsides of the cans to see if there is a Cap-Sealed panel? I would think that would be the best way to settle this discussion.

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Re: Tough Hi Pro cones with USBC <$1000+ value

#43

Post by foreigncanman » Sat May 19, 2018 6:19 pm

For other rare cans the English Lad cones and White horse from Chicago. Tom H

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Re: Tough Hi Pro cones with USBC <$1000+ value

#44

Post by DURTBAGG » Sat May 19, 2018 7:34 pm

The canning codes on my matching beer flat and cone are the same, so I don’t see that as an issue here

Also Chris Eib, the oval beer cone does not have any cap sealed panel so I expect the ale doesn’t either

quote="Matt Menghini" post_id=380595 time=1526642780 user_id=111]
It's my old can, and yes it is the same can that is in the book. I always thought it was probably real, but over the years while I had the can the views of those who looked at it were 50/50. I don't recall the canning code, but it was the same as the flat, which didn't help its chances. The first time I sold it the buyer gave it some thought and decided it was a flat and sent it back. So it is a big question mark. Could not confirm either way. Matt
79E2FEC8-C97D-4E9E-A757-72DBB973EA71.jpeg
[/quote]

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Re: Tough Hi Pro cones with USBC <$1000+ value

#45

Post by Leon » Sat May 19, 2018 11:53 pm

:smt006

double click pic.
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FAVORITE SAYING: WHY DUMP LOCALLY & FIND PROGRESS O/I's WHEN I CAN DRIVE A THOUSAND MILES AND FIND NOTHING.
NOT SO FAVORITE SAYING: SOME CRAZY RICH CLOWN OUTBID ME
ANOTHER SAYING: LIGHTS ARE ON BUT NOBODY'S HOME?

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Re: Tough Hi Pro cones with USBC <$1000+ value

#46

Post by DURTBAGG » Sun May 20, 2018 12:03 am

Thanks Leon! :smt023

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Re: Tough Hi Pro cones with USBC <$1000+ value

#47

Post by bantam10 » Sun May 20, 2018 12:11 am

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Re: Tough Hi Pro cones with USBC <$1000+ value

#48

Post by huberman » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:25 pm

Hi all, I finally had the time to photograph all 4 of the related cans. I believe the photos indicates the can is legit. The canning codes are as follow (can probably be seen in t he photo)

Beer Flat(46-17)-CCC no number
All the rest(46-12,155-29 and 155-21)-CCC 72.

Thanks,

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Re: Tough Hi Pro cones with USBC <$1000+ value

#49

Post by ConeAddict » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:38 pm

It sure looks legit to me for reasons already posted. I am not sure why the heck this is even debated? Just because no dumpers have been found?

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Re: Tough Hi Pro cones with USBC <$1000+ value

#50

Post by conesplus » Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:05 pm

My 2 cents worth-
While Zeiglers is a tough cone, there are just too many out there to be a $1000+ can,
and most are indoor!

Some real Hp toughies that should be $1000+ (in my humble opinion) include;

Arrowhead 150-21
Blitz 153-29
Breunigs 3.2% 154-22
Breunigs strong 154-23
Buffalo Hp 155-15
Chevalier DNCMT 4% 157-17
Copper Club strong 158-15
Diamond State 159-11
Gobbons Hp, NL- not listed
either Grain Belt ale 166-24 & 25
Keeley Lager DNCMT 4% NL
Old Tap Brand 178-05
Pilsers Ale 179-12
Red Wing- no % NL
76 ale- green drum, 185-10
Silver Fox, from Oklahoma, 185-21

Interesting how so many on this list are from the midwest.
Keep turning those cans, ‘cause you never know what you might find.
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Re: Tough Hi Pro cones with USBC <$1000+ value

#51

Post by Scott » Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:23 pm

conesplus wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:05 pm

Some real Hp toughies that should be $1000+ (in my humble opinion) include;

Blitz 153-29
The Blitz cone is not real - at least not in the sense it held beer or was ever a production can. One theory is a mock-up by the can company that was probably made from a flat. You can tell the bottom has been cut down because the logo is lopped off. This one came from the estate of a brewery executive. It's not my can and these are the best photos I have but at least you can see the back.
blitzcone.JPG
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Re: Tough Hi Pro cones with USBC <$1000+ value

#52

Post by conesplus » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:27 pm

My apologies.
I thought the Blitz cone was real. I had never heard it was a mock up.

It is strange that the one pictured above is a different can than the one in the USBC.
The one in the book has different scratches-
so that means there are at least 2 mock up cans known??
Neil

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Re: Tough Hi Pro cones with USBC <$1000+ value

#53

Post by jinsequa » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:19 am

Both Blitz "cone" variations were for sale online at one point for $5000 grand for the pair. No idea if they sold....if they did it must have been a record for a non-legit can?

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