Zip types
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- oldmoneytexan
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Zip types
The composite zip list thread got me to go down the rabbit hole to see how many types of zips I have. I included minor font differences and types of tabs. These are all different. I didn't include the various Hamm bones. And I didn't include brewery/logo stamps either.
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Re: Zip types
Dan,
I think the copper one is Oertel's Thorobred Malt Liquor
Edward,
Thanks for the great pic! Easy to see detail. I'm no expert but I'm making guesses based on what I think I learned from the reference section. I marked up some tops and would appreciate comments whether I'm right or wrong. JAL mentioned that Crown Identified their work and that one could be a crown logo?
(MI-Cans)
I think the copper one is Oertel's Thorobred Malt Liquor
Edward,
Thanks for the great pic! Easy to see detail. I'm no expert but I'm making guesses based on what I think I learned from the reference section. I marked up some tops and would appreciate comments whether I'm right or wrong. JAL mentioned that Crown Identified their work and that one could be a crown logo?
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Re: Zip types
Yes, very cool! I'll have to check this weekend to see if I have anything different. Probably not, but will be fun looking.
MI-Cans - I'll go ahead and argue with you that the two "slot" or "U" tabs he has pictured ARE zips.
The slot/U tabs came with a zip pull lid and a ring pull lid. The zip is a zip and the ring is not. In fact, when discussing the two, the USBC II book says the wording on the lid is as follows: Zip = "Lift Tab and Pull" whereas the ring pull version = "Lift Ring and Pull". Book goes on to say: "The wording difference is the only way to tell if an opened can is a zip tab or a pull tab."
Also see USBC II definition of a Zip on page 25.
MI-Cans - I'll go ahead and argue with you that the two "slot" or "U" tabs he has pictured ARE zips.
The slot/U tabs came with a zip pull lid and a ring pull lid. The zip is a zip and the ring is not. In fact, when discussing the two, the USBC II book says the wording on the lid is as follows: Zip = "Lift Tab and Pull" whereas the ring pull version = "Lift Ring and Pull". Book goes on to say: "The wording difference is the only way to tell if an opened can is a zip tab or a pull tab."
Also see USBC II definition of a Zip on page 25.
Bob
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Re: Zip types
@oldmoneytexan Edward....this all sounds like a good rabbit hole to be going down. I'm sure much of this information was a long time coming and it is great to see it all discussed.....oldmoneytexan wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:37 pm The composite zip list thread got me to go down the rabbit hole to see how many types of zips I have. I included minor font differences and types of tabs. These are all different. I didn't include the various Hamm bones. And I didn't include brewery/logo stamps either.
zips-different.jpg
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Re: Zip types
Cool photo. I think the Regal in the top right corner is the same as a Hamm bone and the two slot tabs ARE zips.
I also think the juice top with a tab pull (not the ring pull version) should be classified as a zip as well.
- Mike
I also think the juice top with a tab pull (not the ring pull version) should be classified as a zip as well.
- Mike
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- chicagocans
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Re: Zip types
I'll have to agree with MI-CANS Ed. Even though the the 2 slots or u tabs pictured some call a zip top I don't consider a true zip top. Just my 2 cents. LEON.
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Re: Zip types
[b][u]Bob,[/u][/b]
No argument here! I'm no expert on any of this stuff. I post what I understand and welcome any corrections or criticism. I'm trying to learn everything I can and this site is the best place to do so! I went to the book on page 25 as you suggested. Here's what they said:
ZIP TAB - Any of the "First Generation" pull tabs, in use from 1962 through 1965, opened by grasping, lifting, and pulling a ringless tab.
RING TAB - "Second Generation" pull tab, introduced in 1965 and characterized by the addition of a ring to the tab portion, allowing the user to insert a finger through the ring for additional leverage in the opening process. In use until replaced by the Stay-Tab in the late 1970s.
[b][u]Chicagocans,[/u][/b]
Never lose that can! My eyes are not what they used to be. I can read "Lift Tab & Pull" and there's obviously a "ring" on that tab. Maybe it was a test lid leading into the ring pull generation. If that can were top opened, all you would see would be the shape of the opening and it could easily be considered a Zip. That's certainly contrary to the book's explanation!
Now, according to what I interpret the USBC book saying, Zip tabs were "ringless" and in use from 1962 through 1965. Then Ring Tabs were in use from 1965 though the late 1970s when Stay-Tabs came around. So that's only three types of tabs regardless of opening shape. I was always fixated on the"lab beaker shape as a Zip. (See Pic) Obviously that's not the case. Certainly every company had their own versions of everything (as said by JAL in the other post). Pretty simple explanation, really. Zip tabs, Ring tabs and Stay-Tabs. But just like there's finite variations in the cans, there will be finite variations in the lids/tabs that collectors will be looking for.
[b][u]Edward,[/u][/b]
I love that Rainier Ale 11oz can!
(MI-Cans)
No argument here! I'm no expert on any of this stuff. I post what I understand and welcome any corrections or criticism. I'm trying to learn everything I can and this site is the best place to do so! I went to the book on page 25 as you suggested. Here's what they said:
ZIP TAB - Any of the "First Generation" pull tabs, in use from 1962 through 1965, opened by grasping, lifting, and pulling a ringless tab.
RING TAB - "Second Generation" pull tab, introduced in 1965 and characterized by the addition of a ring to the tab portion, allowing the user to insert a finger through the ring for additional leverage in the opening process. In use until replaced by the Stay-Tab in the late 1970s.
[b][u]Chicagocans,[/u][/b]
Never lose that can! My eyes are not what they used to be. I can read "Lift Tab & Pull" and there's obviously a "ring" on that tab. Maybe it was a test lid leading into the ring pull generation. If that can were top opened, all you would see would be the shape of the opening and it could easily be considered a Zip. That's certainly contrary to the book's explanation!
Now, according to what I interpret the USBC book saying, Zip tabs were "ringless" and in use from 1962 through 1965. Then Ring Tabs were in use from 1965 though the late 1970s when Stay-Tabs came around. So that's only three types of tabs regardless of opening shape. I was always fixated on the"lab beaker shape as a Zip. (See Pic) Obviously that's not the case. Certainly every company had their own versions of everything (as said by JAL in the other post). Pretty simple explanation, really. Zip tabs, Ring tabs and Stay-Tabs. But just like there's finite variations in the cans, there will be finite variations in the lids/tabs that collectors will be looking for.
[b][u]Edward,[/u][/b]
I love that Rainier Ale 11oz can!
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- oldmoneytexan
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Re: Zip types
Very cool! I would consider that a prototype ring top. There are a couple of OI's with prototype ring pulls as well.
- oldmoneytexan
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Re: Zip types
I am hoping that someone can mach the type of zip to canning company. Someone (it may have been @JAL ) mentioned that many relids have the wrong zip for a canning company.
Many of us run across zips we are curious about.
Many of us run across zips we are curious about.
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Re: Zip types
@oldmoneytexan @JAL @MI-Cans Has a BCCA article to help clarify Zip Tops ever been done? Sorry don't have BMV at the work computer. Much like the article that Kurt @kamsquared did on tab tops. Would it make sense to try and do a joint RB effort to try and put something small together and then make a reference to the composite list so that we can get a wider audience engaged in putting together the best composite list? Again, I believe this will be a valuable tool for any good hobbyist to have in his back pocket so that when he sees a can at a show he can have a better understanding of the validity of the can or if it has possibly been relidded or such......
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Re: Zip types
Yes, I have seen a number of zips with Continental tops used on cans from other canning companies, especially American (KEGLINED) cans. I have also see a number of transitional ring pull cans with Continental ring pull tops on can from other canning companies, including National and American. I find these extremely suspect, and I feel other collectors should too.oldmoneytexan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:53 am I am hoping that someone can mach the type of zip to canning company. Someone (it may have been @JAL ) mentioned that many relids have the wrong zip for a canning company.
First Generation and Second Generation were used by all the canning companies. I suspect this happened because the zip top was originally designed and patented by someone without the designee as a can company, then the designed used under a license agreement with canning companies under patent. Third generations I believe were a result of the canning companies finding a way around the original patent, then designed and stamped the lids with their own equipment in their facilities. Solely my guess after a little research and reading old patents.
First Generation - not unique to any canning company.
Second Generation - not unique to any canning company. Third Generation - CONTINENTAL (if you have this on a can something other than CCC, then you have a issue). Continental Canning - "U" or "SLOT" zip tab Third Generation - Crown Corn & Seal Third Generation - American Canning Company (KEGLINED) American Canning - Dog Bone zip
The squirrely part is with the National and Heekin third generation zips; the tab itself is the same design or extremely close as the American tab, but the lid stampings are somewhat different than American. I don't have access to my collection to pull any National or Heekin zips. Wiedemann used Heekin some, so you can probably find one there.
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Re: Zip types
There are a bunch of articles in newspapers.com and I'll try to get some more added as time permits this evening......
Democrat and Chronicle Thu Sep 19 1963
Democrat and Chronicle Thu Sep 19 1963
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Re: Zip types
JAL,
That's great info with pics to boot! Thank you.
Keithker,
Did a search for "Zip" and here's the result. I grabbed a couple of the pages with good info.
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Click to enlarge.
That's great info with pics to boot! Thank you.
Keithker,
Did a search for "Zip" and here's the result. I grabbed a couple of the pages with good info.
(MI-Cans)
Click to enlarge.
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Re: Zip types
Your welcome, I have to credit Ed 'Old Money Texan' for the picture. I hope he doesn't mind I borrowed the image and cropped the picture to show what was what. My collection is boxed, and I don't have pictures of the 'tops' of my non-collection since I don't chase those as variations. I just separate my collection between flats and NON-cans.
As for the Stoney's in the article, apparently I am the one that chased it... that is my can and yes, it was one I got off fleebay years back. The mandatory is missing from the back panel compared to the newer "black print" Stoney's.
Notice the seam difference, the dog bone is an American can, and the seam is typical of American's during the time frame, where the newer version is CCC (Continental), and the seam is also typical of that can company.
c
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Re: Zip types
It says 'LIFT TAB' on top of the lid - looks like a zip to me!
Michael
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Re: Zip types
Where's this zip top fit in? LEON.
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Re: Zip types
I pulled some cans down and noted a few variations in the size and spacing of the same words on both the American and the CCC gen 3 zips.
Is this due to different vendors making the tops? I will post pics later This is an interesting test insert that by the definitions is a zip
Is this due to different vendors making the tops? I will post pics later This is an interesting test insert that by the definitions is a zip
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Re: Zip types
That's the "accordion" style Longhorn Mike was talking about. Jax and a few others used that.storzman wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:30 pm I pulled some cans down and noted a few variations in the size and spacing of the same words on both the American and the CCC gen 3 zips.
Is this due to different vendors making the tops? I will post pics later This is an interesting test insert that by the definitions is a zip
2-146-02a-sim, Busch - St Louis, small HQ, U-zip.JPG
2-146-02e-sim, Busch - St Louis, small HQ, U-zip.JPG
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Re: Zip types
I'm assuming that the Juice/Insert is not in the zip category even though it has a tab as part of the mechanics?
Anyone got an Ortlieb's embossed zip like this ad?
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Anyone got an Ortlieb's embossed zip like this ad?
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Re: Zip types
Received this pic from another ChiTown collector.Boardman wrote:It says 'LIFT TAB' on top of the lid - looks like a zip to me!
Michael
Ring pull zip tøp!!
Kamsquared
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Re: Zip types
I can see both cans in your original picture.....are they going on the market?
Kamsquared
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Re: Zip types
The ring pull juice tab has an indented tøp and the accordion pull tab does not.oldmoneytexan wrote:Yep. "Juice top" or "insert"
I’ve never seen an accordion style juice tab that wasn’t bottom opened....and I’ve been looking.
I’m sure I could make one....but not seen one in the wild.
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Re: Zip types
I know of one in PA.kamsquared wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:06 pmReceived this pic from another ChiTown collector.Boardman wrote:It says 'LIFT TAB' on top of the lid - looks like a zip to me!
Michael
Ring pull zip tøp!!