Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

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Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

#1

Post by Conehead »

There always seams to be some confusion on the different styles of cone tops. So I thought I would get
some pics together of all the major differences of tops on Cone Tops.

My intent with this thread is to clarify the names of the tops and not necessarily match the top to a specific
can construction. I would like to add dates to these styles, so if anyone has this information please feel free to
add it to the thread.

If I happened to miss any tops, or if you are aware of any minor variations of the tops shown let's discuss them. If
possible show a pic to help clarify.

If this information is received well, then maybe we could expand this idea with seam information, canning codes, canning
company panels, etc.

Low Profiles: There are 3 basic types of low profile cones, all of which were made by Continental Can Co.. The Inverted Rib Low Profile, the Razor Low Profile, and the Standard Low Profile. With only a few exceptions Low Plofile cone tops were made before WWII.

Inverted Rib Low Profile: The very first cone tops. These cones will also have a flat bottom and are sometimes refered to as "Flat Bottom Inverted Rib" (FBIR)
LP,fbir.JPG
Razor Low Profile: Notice the sharp lip just below wher the bottom of the cap will end up. I believe this style of cone was only made at Continental plant #52.
LP,razor.JPG
The standard Low Profile: This is the top most seen on low profile cone tops.
LP.JPG
J Spouts: There is one major style of the J Spout Made by Crown that comes in 3 minor variations. Marc Tracy has graciously allowed me to use his information and pictures from a previous thread.

The first type is the oldest, as all 12 of my flat bottom J's have this. Note that the neck (moving downward from the lip) narrows, widens, and then narrows again, which creates the bulge you refer to.
JSpout,type1.jpg
The second type is seen on the majority of the J's. Note that the lip is a little taller than on the first type and that the neck narrows and then widens, but does not narrow again.
JSpout,type2.jpg
The third type is a definite anomaly, as it appears only on the Bruck's Jubilee. The neck is basically identical to #2, but the lip is taller still and is also noticeably wider at the bottom than it is at the top. As far as I can tell the Bruck's Jubilee was the last new J-Spout to hit the market. It carries the text "Since 1856" and "85 Years Continuous Brewing", which would indicate that it was introduced in 1941. I've not yet seen anything to indicate that any other J-Spouts were introduced later than 1940.
JSpout,type3.jpg
High Profile Cone Tops: The High Profile cone top was manufactured by all 3 canning companies; Continental, Crown, & American. Continental was the most prolific and made three major styles while the other two canning companies each produced one style. High profile cones first appeared in the late 1930's and some breweries continued their use into the early 1960's.

Continental High Profile Cone Tops: This canning company produced 3 styles of high profile cone top. The Razor Bulb, the Bulb, and the Standard High Profiles. I believe the Razor Bulb and the Bulb were only produced at Continental's plant #52.

Continental Razor Bulb Top: I believe this to be the oldest style of high profile and was the predecessor of the bulb top. I don't know the dates of production but it was very short and in the late 1930's. Notice the sharp lip just under where the bottom of the cap would be.
HP,Continentalrazorbulb.JPG
Continental Bulb Top: These tops were only produced for a few years and was the predecessor of the standard high profile. Again I don't know the exact dates of production but it was from the very late 1930's through the early 1940's.
HP,Continantalbulb.JPG
Continental Standard High Profile: You will see more of these than any other style of cone top. Production of these started just prior to WWII and ended in the early 1960's.
HP,Continental.JPG
Crown High Profile: I don't know if this style was produced before WWII or not but it does come both in IRTP and non-IRTP. Notice the difference from Continental's high profile. This style has a round top lip and smoother transition from the spout to the neck.
Hp,crown.JPG
American High Profile: Again, I do not know the production dates for this style but it also comes IRTIP and non-IRTP. The most noticable trait of this style is the ribbing in the neck area. This style was also only produced with a flat bottom. Sometimes know as a Flat Bottom High Profile, (FBHP).
HP,American.JPG
Crowntainers: This style of cone was produced by Crown from late 1939 until sometime in the 1950's. The best description I have heard of this can is that it is like "A little bomb of Beer".
Crowntainer.JPG
Quart Cone Tops: There are four styles of Quart Cone Tops procuded by three canning companies. American made 2 styles, while Continental and Crown each produced one style. Thanks to Matt Menke and http://www.onefullquart.com for some of the following information on quarts.

Continental Quart: This is the earliest quart cone and and was first produced in mid 1937 and continued through the mid 1950's.
QT,Continental.JPG
American Quart Type 1: This style was first made in 1940 and continued until WWII. It has a slightly taller pouring spout and more defined ribs.
QT,American,type1.JPG
American Quart Type 2: American produced this style quart cone top in the mid 1950's.
QT,American,type2.JPG
Crown Quart: This style was produced from the early 1940's through the early 1950's. The most noticable difference of this style is the lack of any ribs on the spout.
QT,Crown.JPG
Novelty Spouts: I just wanted to show for comparison some of the commonly seen spouts that were never on production cone tops, though they are often (wrongly) used as replacement parts.

Ribbed J-Spout: Crown never had a production ribbed J-Spout. I really don't know where this spout came from but it was often used in the early days of the hobby as a replacement top. This cone is most often seen on the the Golden Age cones that should have the Standard Low Profile top. Also commonly seen on The Fehr's racehorse can. The USBC also shows a Fritz Brew cone with this top (should also be a Standard Low Profile).
Repro,JSpout.JPG
General Pulaski High Profile: This spout closely resembles the production Continental Standard High Profile and is a pretty good match for a replacement top. Differences that I notice include a slightly more round lip and a slightly lighter gage of metal.
Repro,HPgeneralpulaski.JPG
Milwaukee Brand High Profile: This spout has three ribs instead of the normal two on the Continental Standard High Profile. The coloring is also an unusual gray that never appeared as a production cone top. When used as a replacemennt top it does not resemble an original very well.
Repro,HPmilwaukeebrand.JPG


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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

#2

Post by Daev Larrazolo »

Very informative I had no idea.
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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

#3

Post by Flat_Top »

Great information. Thanks for posting.
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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

#4

Post by BrianS »

Thanks for posting such great info!
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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

#5

Post by Carl S »

Thanks for the information. I am so tired of seeing all those Golden Age J-Spout Franken-cones.
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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

#6

Post by Sweeperman »

Jim, thank you for taking the time to create this thread. Very informative, helpful and interesting.
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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

#7

Post by Daev Larrazolo »

Reputation point awarded.
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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

#8

Post by jwcans »

Are there any FBIR Quarts? Any obvious reasons why not?
Dave, I'm thinking about giving you a point, for being the first to give Jim a point. Keep up the goog work
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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

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Post by Leon »

jwcans wrote:Are there any FBIR Quarts? Any obvious reasons why not?
Dave, I'm thining about giving you a point, for being the first to give Jim a point. Keep up the goog work

The flat bottom inverted rib cans were only produced for approximately 6 months, Roughly last 3 months of 1935 & first 3 months of 1936 give or take a month(or2) The Quart cone was not produced until after this time period so no FBIR quarts exist. LEON.
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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

#10

Post by Conehead »

Thanks for the nice comments guys.

And thanks for the input Leon. The date info was the type of information I was hoping to get. I know the cone
styles but not so much when they were produced.

Thanks to Matt and his website I was able to put a slight timeline on the quarts.

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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

#11

Post by 333 »

Amazing article! Very informative!
Thank you for taking the time to put this together and present it so well! You should write a book.

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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

#12

Post by Brent Gesland »

Great info Jim :smt017

From what I do know is that only 2 J-spouts were made after/or during WWII and were Blatz OD and Iroquois J...Does the paper label thing have any thing to do with this? Maybe Marc will chime in!!

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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

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Post by Scott Rollert »

Excellent piece of work there Jim. Reputation point awarded to Mr. Hall! One more reason this site is THE source for beer cans.
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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

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Post by Mark (expired) »

This is exactly what Rusty Bunch, BCCA, and the other clubs and chapters promote: sharing of historic information... many many many thanks for pdoing this and so clearly!
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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

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Post by Mark (expired) »

This is clearly focused on US cones. Do you want to consider adding non-US? Metal Box in the U.K. had variations and the 9 2/3oz cones, and there are the german aluminum cones. Have you compared Canadian and Venezuelan cones to see if there was any varaiations?
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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

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Post by Conehead »

mark (expired) wrote:
This is clearly focused on US cones. Do you want to consider adding non-US? Metal Box in the U.K. had variations and the 9 2/3oz cones, and there are the german aluminum cones. Have you compared Canadian and Venezuelan cones to see if there was any varaiations?
Absolutely, if you want to add information on cones other than the US please do so. I don't have enough knowledge or cans in the collection to comment on this. I would find information like that extremely valuable.
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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

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Post by etbcm »

Wow...fantastic information. Thanks.

"A little bomb of beer". Nice!
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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

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Post by beercanman »

Great post, Jim. This post needs to be saved in our reference forum so it doesn't get lost.
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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

#19

Post by Wheaton »

Ooh...I like! Leave it to Jim to make a thread this cool. You mentioned the Bruck's being the last production J in about 1941. Any insights on the provenance of the OD Blatz Js? They would seem to be later cans, but I'll leave the details to you and Marc.

I can lend dating ideas to some of these cones and I was even able to refine them a bit after that Rustlings article awhile back. I was admittedly obsessed with a very specific segment of cones: the HP bulbs, and the other goings-on at Continental Plant 52. A timeline is neatly contained in the date codes on the bottoms of all Schlitz, Milwaukee Club, and Old Milwaukee cans - LP through standard HP cones, plus flats. It's a stroke of good fortune that Jos. Schlitz not only date coded their cans and helped to contextualize all this information for us, but that they were always in the vanguard with filling Continental's pre-war container designs. A great developmental lineage can be established just by reading the bottoms of these cans.

The razor-bulb LPs I've confirmed from Plant 52 have been date coded for 1937 and 1938. The HP razor bulbs I've seen were all dated for 1938, and judging from the fact that they only appeared on a scant few cans, they were probably produced for just a few months' time. The regular HP bulbs came about later in '38 and superceded the razors. I only found two Schlitz along the way in standard bulbs that carried this date code, both with toothless seams and the earlier light brown label. The implication is that HP razors became regular bulbs late in 1938.

Regular HP bulbs ran from this point through sometime in early-mid 1941, and were then supplanted by standard HPs.

I think the coolest part of this is the history implied when three factors are considered together: (1) Plant 52's container design codes, (2) the date codes on the bottoms of the period Jos. Schlitz Brewing Co cans, and (3) the "dumping record," as it were. LP cones were first from this facility (coded 52-1), razor bulbs came second in 1938 and were quickly upgraded to standard bulbs (both styles coded 52-2; for manufacturing purposes, they were clearly considered the same design), flattops were third (52-3), and standard HPs came last in 1941 (52-4). These design codes were unique and sequential; again, with the exception of the HP razor-to-bulb transition that only represented an improvement on an existing design and didn't warrant a unique code. By all appearances the LP razors also changed to smooth bulbs at this point but still remained design 1.

Then, merge all of this with the "dumping record." There were quite a few labels issued by Plant 52 that never appeared as HP bulbs. These transitioned straight from LP to standard HP. Using the same short list examples as once before, consider Berghoff, Fitger's Nordlager, and Haas. All were Plant 52 cans and are found either as LPs or standard HPs; sometimes, both are found together in the same general dump spot. Berghoff is definitely guilty as charged. But none of these labels are ever found as HP bulbs. It is then implied that Plant 52's design codes (1 through 4) tell an even more intriguing story: their different container designs were being marketed concurrently. Example: you walked into a northern Michigan suds retailer in the fall of 1940. You would have encountered Berghoff in LP cones right alongside Schlitz and Milwaukee Club in HP bulbs, even though all the cans were manufactured at the same Continental facility. By the following summer, this retailer still had the exact same brands and labels available but all were now in standard HPs. You'd also find Old Milwaukee in plant 52's new shiny green flattops. Or let's say you were in just the right store at just the right moment down in Texas, ca. late 1940. You could conceivably have found Time in HP bulbs available right alongside brown-on-copper Schlitz flattops, all in cans produced by Continental Plant 52.

If you get really nitpicky, all the evidence taken together indicates that at the height of this plant's container development, there would have been a point in or about early 1941 where all four can designs were produced for market at the same time. To the best of my ability to flesh it out, plant 52's production timeline was pretty close to this:

early-mid 1938: LP razor cones
mid '38 - late '38: LP razor cones and HP razor bulbs
late '38: standard (smooth bulb) LP cones and HP standard bulbs
sometime ca. late 1940: LP cones and HP bulbs and flattops
a brief period ca. early 1941: LP cones and HP bulbs and standard HP cones and flattops
ca. mid 1941: standard HP cones and flattops only

Bottom line is that the standard HP eventually became the market hit, obsoletizing both the LP and HP bulb styles. But since some breweries were stalwart users of the oldest (read: market proven) can style while others were boldly marketing their beer in each of the different container designs as they were introduced, there was a period of production interplay. Plant 52 was really busy during this time period, and I feel absolutely certain that the documentation will one day be found to support the notion that this facility was commissioned exclusively to supply the burgeoning beverage container market. It's verifiable that Plant 52 inherited some early labels from Plant 4, which produced all of the FBIRs and many of the early standard LP cones. Both can be found coded "4-11." This code is telling as it indicates that Plant 4 was already prolific with unrelated container designs, and who knows what they were. Condensed milk, soup, hemmorhoid cream...could have been anything. It doesn't matter much, but does demonstrate that this facility already had the tooling to produce as many as 10 different package styles. Cap-sealed beer cans, in their infancy, were design 11 from Plant 4 and probably took off so well that new manufacturing capacity was warranted. Enter Plant 52, perhaps? Their "design 1" was a beer can. We can prove that. Through development and market research they probably leveraged their ideas into the designs that would galvanize Continental's beverage container success for many years to come. Further, I believe that other plants in Continental's network waited while these new ideas played out in public and then followed suit. Old Bohemia cones are one good example of such hat-tipping, and they came from Plant 21. Both the LPs and HPs are coded 21-6 which, to this facility, simply meant "market worthy cap-sealed beverage container." No distinction was made between the two can designs and seems to indicate that at some point they made a wholesale changeover from LP to HP cones. This may even be why the "old collector's wisdom" held that HP cones were a 1941 development. That would simply have been the general time period that Continental's other eastern operations were jumping on board with a known market winner. I'd bet my bottom dollar they owed their debt of gratitude to Plant 52.

Still waiting to find something from that time period to indicate where Plant 52 was located. The base-label bulb composite that took shape several years ago remains unchanged (except for variations), and the bulk of those cans were produced for midwestern breweries. Time, Dawson's, Old Tap, Clyde and possibly Gold Seal were among the few peripheral exceptions while others gravitated most heavily around Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, and Illinois labels. It follows that the plant was probably somewhere in the midwest, but I've never nailed it down. We need some Continental shareholder's reports from 1937-38 as they might shed even more light on all this.
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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

#20

Post by Conehead »

Thanks Dave, I knew I could count on you for some thought provoking information. That's why I didn't get to in depth with the dating of the spouts.

As far as the info on the J-Spouts are concerned, what I added was exactly what Marc had written in the short thread where J's were shown. Maybe he will chime in on the Blatz and Iroquois O.D.'s.

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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

#21

Post by John H. »

Ok, I have a question for some oddball american cones. First, what type of top did the Northampton use on the 10oz Tru Blu beer & ale conetops and the Krueger 16oz beer and ale cones? Did they differ from those indicated above, and did they have any variations?

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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

#22

Post by Conehead »

Hi John,

Good question and sorry so long to reply. I had to find a little time to dig my cans out of storage to look at.

The 16 ounce Kruegers use continentals standard High Profile top.

I believe the 10 ounce J-spouts have the most common type 2 crown spout, (mine are a bit rusty).

Jim
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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

#23

Post by jwcans »

Leon, Yes, you are right, as it is here. So there are NO American Can Co. non- flat bottom cones?
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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

#24

Post by Conehead »

Jwcans,

You are correct, ALL American Can Co. cones have flat bottoms.

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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

#25

Post by dknjax »

Nice post!!
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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

#26

Post by menke »

Sweet can porn, Jim. Next time we go to Lebo's I'll bring the calipers and we'll dig into his non-US cones! And then there's seam construction- now that's a real can of worms. someday....
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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

#27

Post by jomama »

Jim da man!





International ALUMINUM BOTTLES WANTED
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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

#28

Post by Leon »

Another cone style not pictured. This is a late 34 or early 35 Prototype can. LEON.

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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

#29

Post by Conehead »

Wow, cool top Leon. I don't believe I have ever noticed that one before. What canning co. is that? Do yo have a full picture?

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Re: Different styles of tops on Cone Tops

#30

Post by Leon »

Yes, I got a full pic but not mine to post. It's pretty much the same can thats in the Class book #24-7. Only Differance is the top. Full can pictured in the Cone top article I did in BCCA mag a few years ago. LEON.
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