Cab Lights question

#31

BackbarJohn....
At BG 2 to 4 years ago (memory is bad, ya know?) you had a Pabst piece that was composed of a few hundred very small lights that outlined the o/i can. I believe the lights blinked. It was displayed in a window about 4-5 doors down on the right from the hospitality room. It's the only piece like that I have ever seen.
Is there a name for that type of piece? Have you seen any other pieces like that advertising beer brands? If my memory is correct and that's your piece, would you post a flick of it and provide some background info?
I have always enjoyed your displays at BG.

#32

Cab lights were produced for hundreds of brands of beer (too many to list here) especially when you count those made by Cincinnati Advertising Products and those made by Gillco.

I'd have to respectfully disagree with the notion that there are "hundreds" of cab lights that exist for beer & ale.
We could hypothesize that maybe hundreds were manufactured, but this would just be a guess, and a little like
saying hundreds more brands of OI cans were made than are currently known.
I've been keeping a list for the better part of 20 years now of all the known Gillco beer/ale cab lights, culled from every
available source: other collectors, shows, auction catalogs, eBay, etc.
Including a number of minor variations of the same brand, that list is still under 60 Gillco examples known. Cincinnati
Advertising produced substantially fewer than Gillco, so the numbers from those two manufacturers combined would
still fall short of 100 examples known.

-Andy A.

#33

menke wrote:Is there a general price range that's the going rate for these lights? I don't have the experience with them that I have with cans and don't like the idea of finding one in an antique shop and paying twice the market price.

As for the "going rate" on cab lights: I don't think there is one becasue there are too many factors that influence the price, and for any given cab light of which there has been at least two of the same example, the spread has been pretty wide. For example, an Old Reading cab light (probably the most common, and as common as the red and white Trommers) has brought as much as $3,300 and as little as $2,000 (a front lens was once found by itself; it brought $900). On the other hand, the red and white Trommers has brought as much as $3,000 and as little as $650.

As for "price range": Based on prices I've seen at shops, shows, on eBay, at live auctions, and private transactions, the lowest price I know of (which was on eBay about four years ago) was approximately $600, and the highest price I know of (which was in a private transaction about two years ago) was $4,750.

As for "finding one in an antique shop and paying twice the market price,": You probably don't have much to worry about there. Finding them in antique shops is extremely rare.

#34

John, this one?

#35

Yup, that's the Pabst piece Josh.

I'm very curious to know if there are other beer signs similar to that and what are they are known as...... blinking cardboard light up, or what?
Certainly one of the most visually appealing signs, to me, that I've ever seen.

#36

I'm just a podunk farm kid from the Minnesota tundra,so my transactions never make the national radar.I offer a dissenting opinion:Lights of this rarity CAN be located "in the wild" I can't rely on on flexing my checkbook,so I have to rely on my Fred Sanford-esque scrounge skills.

I hereby present to the bunch,these two examples:

The Philco was found outside at the Minnesota Fairgrounds show a few years ago for 275.00.I picked up the Trommer's for 250.00 through a private seller via the mail.

#37

Dunkelweizen wrote:
thebackbar wrote:

Cab lights were produced for hundreds of brands of beer (too many to list here) especially when you count those made by Cincinnati Advertising Products and those made by Gillco.
I'd have to respectfully disagree with the notion that there are "hundreds" of cab lights that exist for beer & ale. We could hypothesize that maybe hundreds were manufactured . . .
-Andy A.

Andy,
Thank you for your input. But please be aware that the initiator of this thread asked:

jwcans wrote:Does anyone [know] how many of the Gillco, or Cab Lights were produced.

In part of my reply, which you quoted above, I addressed the question regarding how many were produced. I was not addressing how many exist, which appears to be the basis of your disagreement. Since in your reply you make a distinction between the number of cab lights that you know to exist and the number that may have been manufactured [produced], it would seem that we are not necessarily in disagreement after all.

Nevertheless, would you share with us your list and some photos of cab lights that you know to exist?

#38

josh wrote:John, this one?

Yes, that's the one. This Pabst TapaCan illuminated motion sign that you saw in my window last year at Blue Gray was made by Magnalite Corp. of Los Angeles, CA, circa 1935/38.

Here's a copy of the patent drawing.

The sign has only two light bulbs behind the cardboard face. The "few hundred very small lights" are tiny, transparent, colored beads of varying sizes embedded in the face. The twinkling effect is produced by a sheet metal grill that oscilates between the light bulbs and the face. The effect is like an early theater marquee with light bulbs along the perimeter that flicker on and off in sequence, making them look as though they are moving (or "chasing") around the perimeter. It's very impressive to watch in person.

The only other sign like this that I have seen is for Fuhrman & Schmidt beer. It was at Blue Gray last month. And I know someone who has another for a non-beer product.

#39

And now your Honor, We would like to call Angry Gary to the stand. Proceed Mr. Gary

#40

ohiocoasterswanted wrote:And now your Honor, We would like to call Angry Gary to the stand. Proceed Mr. Gary

GUILTY, AS CHARGED!

#41

I will have to decline on sharing the list publicly on here for several reasons.
As the Tally-Ho that ended last night illustrates, these can be expensive signs,
and a number of the examples are one-of-a-kinds-known shared with me by other
collectors, with the express understanding that I keep it to myself. Some people
are understandably private about what they have of value, and I have to respect that.
Other examples I have recorded are also one-of-a-kinds, shared with me by one
collector or another, who know the whereabouts of the sign, and are working hard
on acquiring it for their collection. Again, don't wish to betray their trust in me by
babbling to the world on this forum, and potentially giving them a lot of unwanted
competition from other collectors who might try and locate the same sign.
However, I always carry a list of the signs and a photo album with me at shows, and
I'd be happy to show it to anyone interested. For anyone who'll be at the Las Vegas
show in a few weeks, and is interested, just ask me!
I can relate there are very few Western examples of these signs, just a handful known.
Also, if someone has a local brand they collect that is very near and dear to their heart,
and is wondering if one is known in that brand, PM or e-mail me, and I'll try and help.
Below are some photos from my collection. I have had the good fortune in years past
of managing to locate multiple examples of several of them.
One interesting point about the Lowenbrau cab light, as was pointed out, is it's the only
cab light known with a metal instead of a glass back, and while it's made with Gillco
tooling for the most part, it wasn't made by Gillco. I've owned three of the Lowenbrau,
and one of those retains the original manufacturers decal on the back (shown) from
Central Lighting Fixture & Supply. Collectors of W. PA breweriana will recognize this
name from the round ROG Fort Pitt and Old Shay lights that Central also made, among
other signs. Near as I can guess, Gillco may have sold their tooling and rights to the cab
light signs to Central when they exited the advertising sign business.

: CentralDecal.jpg (16.77 KiB) Viewed 10998 times

: KaiersCab.jpg (47.49 KiB) Viewed 10998 times

#42

Since I did not make BG this year, just one among many, could some one please post a flick of the F&S illuminated motion sign?

ohiocoasterswanted wrote:And now your Honor, We would like to call Angry Gary to the stand. Proceed Mr. Gary

I call S.D. on the above

#43

The Pabst TapaCan illuminated motion sign pictured above shows a label design which was obsolete by the end of 1935. Pabst appears to have been pretty good about updating their advertising to reflect the changes in their cans, so this should help pin down a date for the motion sign. I saw this piece at Blue/Grey, and it was very impressive to even a "cans only" collector such as myself. I also wanted to note that I didn't begin following this thread until I noticed that it kept jumping back to the top of the list of topics. I do appreciate breweriana, I just don't collect it. Mr. Backbar - your knowledge of the topic is encylopedic and you've managed to convey the information without an ounce of a "know-it-all" attitude. Very impressive.

Marc

#44

What style of lights are these??

#45

mtracy64 wrote:The Pabst TapaCan illuminated motion sign pictured above shows a label design which was obsolete by the end of 1935. Pabst appears to have been pretty good about updating their advertising to reflect the changes in their cans, so this should help pin down a date for the motion sign. I saw this piece at Blue/Grey, and it was very impressive to even a "cans only" collector such as myself. I also wanted to note that I didn't begin following this thread until I noticed that it kept jumping back to the top of the list of topics. I do appreciate breweriana, I just don't collect it. Mr. Backbar - your knowledge of the topic is encylopedic and you've managed to convey the information without an ounce of a "know-it-all" attitude. Very impressive.
Marc

Marc:
Thank you very much for your valuable input regarding the Pabst TapaCan sign. I wish I knew more about cans, as it would help me pin down the age of some early breweriana, as you have just illustrated with the Pabst example.

Thank you also for your compliment and kind words with respect to my knowledge on the subject of cab lights and other early lighted breweriana. I am very pleased to hear that my efforts and the information I share are appreciated by others in our hobby. I am hopeful that I will learn more about cans (and thus about brewriana) through our exchanges in this forum; and that can collectors will likewise learn more about early lighted breweriana and become more interested in collecting it.

I'd also like to thank jwcans for initiating this thread.

John

#46

i agree with smoller, i was at b/g and didnt even see the f & s sign, could someone post a pic or 2 of it please.

#47

Pokey wrote:What style of lights are these??

Pokey:

Those are edge-lit register top signs, circa mid to late 1930s, made by either Price Brothers or Raymond M. Price (RMP). The removeable glass inserts are reverse-etched and painted, with removeable, painted, metal plates behind. The bases are cast metal with incandescent lamps inside.

Note the feet protruding from the bottoms of the signs. They are spring-loaded, adjustable assemblies for securing the signs to the tops of cash registers; as shown on this Price Brothers register topper from 1937/38:

Be aware that an authorized adaptation was produced for AB in 1996. An example of the '96 adaptation is shown below. it is very easy to distinguish in person by the light-weight plastic base and fluorescent lighting. In addition, the adaptations are not equipped with the spring-loaded feet. Apparently they were inteded for counter-top display only.

#48

RustyGoats wrote:i agree with smoller, i was at b/g and didnt even see the f & s sign, could someone post a pic or 2 of it please.

The F & S motion sign was in the back corner of Mark Z's room, so a lot of folks probably missed it. The front of the sign was very, very dark from age (and probably a lot of nicotine). It would not have photographed well, which is why I didn't take a picture. Maybe Mark can supply you with a few pictures. If you want his e-mail address, e-mail or PM me.

#49

thebackbar wrote:
... made by either Price Brothers or Raymond M. Price (RMP). [/attachment]

Which came first Raymond M. Price or Price Brothers? I would assume a relationship between these two names??

This Bud sign is very similar to the early post which is a Price Brothers, while this appears to be a Raymond M Price.

What is the purpose of the clips on the back?

Has anyone publish a decent guide to these signs?

#50

This is a great thread.

I own a single Gillco cab light, a Tally Ho that I was fortunate enough to buy from a friend of my dad's probably five years ago. They are great signs but extremely hard to buy for the collector of average means, unless they have some serious "right place at the right time" mojo working. Generally, if they are on e-bay forget about one closing for less than two grand.

As for some cabs I know about: Hulls in New Haven had one for Cappalban Lager. Star Brewing of Boston has two diff, one very pretty, one less so with the hunting graphic. The short lived Hollen Brewing of Rhode Island has one. All of these are pictured in the New England Breweriana book.

About a year ago there was a St Mary's Beer and Ale from PA on. It had big issues, and if I remember correctly a small missing piece. It was still quite pretty and brought around $800 if I recall correctly.

This thread also got me thinking about Gilco's business practices. I know the signs were relatively expensive new, but Gillco's minimum order size had to be low. There are so many from smaller breweries that couldn't possibly have been buying them by the 100's could they?

Ed

#51

Pokey wrote: Which came first Raymond M. Price or Price Brothers? I would assume a relationship between these two names??

With respect to illuminated advertising signs and other similar or related inventions and designs: patents containing “Price Brothers” appear as early as 1919 and as late as 1954, and include Louis E. Price as assignor to Price Brothers [however I know that the company was in business at least until 1963 based on zip codes on some Price Brothers signs I’ve seen; patents containing “Raymond M. Price” appear as early as 1939 and as late as 1953; no patents appear that contain "Price Brothers" and "Raymond M. Price" in the same patent.
This suggests that Price Brothers Inc. of Chicago preceded Raymond M. Price and Associates of Chicago.
I would also imagine that there was a relationwhip between the owners of the companies.

Pokey wrote: What is the purpose of the clips on the back?

They are for securing the sign to the top of a cash register; like the earlier examples.

Pokey wrote: Has anyone publish a decent guide to these signs?

You may occasionally find a few general references to lighted signs in antiques or collectibles guides. And some of the Schiffer books on the subject of breweriana and advertising have a few pictures of early lighted signs. But, to my knowledge, there are no published reference guides that are dedicated to early lighted breweriana -- one may be published someday.

#52

Ed Johnson wrote: As for some cabs I know about:
Hulls in New Haven had one for Cappalban Lager.

Ed Johnson wrote: Star Brewing of Boston has two.

Ed Johnson wrote: The short lived Hollen Brewing of Rhode Island has one.

Ed Johnson wrote:. . .there was a St Mary's Beer. . .

Ed Johnson wrote:This thread also got me thinking about Gilco's business practices. I know the signs were relatively expensive new, but Gillco's minimum order size had to be low. There are so many from smaller breweries that couldn't possibly have been buying them by the 100's could they?

Hi Ed:
I have an advertisment somewhere in my archives. If I can find it, I will post it. According to the ad, Gillco cab lights cost about $3.00 (three) dollars each to the buyer. 100 lights would = $300.00 (for an oder of 100 or more lights, I would think the price would be less than $3.00 each). In the mid to late 1930s, I think that $300.00 would be a lot of money to us, but probably not overwhelming even for a small brewery.
John

#53

Great thread! Anyone ever seen any Minnesota Cab lights? These are beautiful pieces! Thanks for posting pics.

#54

first off i must say what a great thread. ed you got to it before i could. how that all the small brewerys in new england seemed to have gillco's. i just looked on the inflation calculator and the 3.00 to buy a gillco cab light in 1935 would cost 44.89 in 2007 dollars. so not cheap, but by all means not expensive. i don't have a cab light yet but i haven't been able to find a harvard gillco. the cosest i have come is an outdoor fired glass ans neon sign...ron

#55

foam-fresh wrote:. . .i haven't been able to find a harvard gillco. the closest i have come is an outdoor fired glass and neon sign...ron

I'll trade you a Gillco cab light for that Harvard neon

#56

There is so much eye candy here, I just can't stand it. I WANT ALL OF THEM!!!! Here I sit, looking at my pitiful display without a single cab/taxidome/Halo/bullet or any of the lights shown here. God I'm jealous of you guys that that have one (or in John's case, more than 1!). Thanks to everyone here for posting images, it's almost like being there.

John H.

#57

Ed Johnson wrote: Star Brewing of Boston has two diff. . .

Ed: We stand corrected. Here is another cab light for Star Brewing:

So that's now three different cab lights for Star.

#58

thebackbar wrote:
mtracy64 wrote:The Pabst TapaCan illuminated motion sign pictured above shows a label design which was obsolete by the end of 1935. Pabst appears to have been pretty good about updating their advertising to reflect the changes in their cans, so this should help pin down a date for the motion sign. I saw this piece at Blue/Grey, and it was very impressive to even a "cans only" collector such as myself. I also wanted to note that I didn't begin following this thread until I noticed that it kept jumping back to the top of the list of topics. I do appreciate breweriana, I just don't collect it. Mr. Backbar - your knowledge of the topic is encylopedic and you've managed to convey the information without an ounce of a "know-it-all" attitude. Very impressive.
Marc
Marc:
Thank you very much for your valuable input regarding the Pabst TapaCan sign. I wish I knew more about cans, as it would help me pin down the age of some early breweriana, as you have just illustrated with the Pabst example.

Thank you also for your compliment and kind words with respect to my knowledge on the subject of cab lights and other early lighted breweriana. I am very pleased to hear that my efforts and the information I share are appreciated by others in our hobby. I am hopeful that I will learn more about cans (and thus about brewriana) through our exchanges in this forum; and that can collectors will likewise learn more about early lighted breweriana and become more interested in collecting it.

I'd also like to thank jwcans for initiating this thread.

John

John,

I'm glad I could add something. We as a group have become much better at dating cans in recent years, largely due to Bob Porter's efforts. Bob succeeded in cracking the American Can Co. dating code a couple of years ago. If we have an example of any American Can Co. can from 1935-1953 on which the fine print can be read, we can figure out which year the body blank was produced using the table at the link below. Other cans aren't quite as simple to date, but most of the pre-1950 cans can be narrowed down to a 1-2 year span pretty easily based on patent information or government regulations which dictated changes, and specialist collectors are often very good at dating post-1950 cans that fall in their specialty. If there's a better place to learn about cans than this website, I'm not aware of it.

http://www.therustybunch.com/phpBB3/vie ... =96&t=8482

As far as your contributions - I've been coming here since 2001 and very few discussion threads on any topic have been as informative as this one is. I also get the distinct impression that this information wasn't easy to come by. I look at the guys who are asking the questions and I see a number of guys who I know are knowledgeable on breweriana. You're clearly an asset to this website and to the hobby, and I thought it was important to acknowledge that. If/when this thread dies out, we need to make sure that it's copied over to the Archived Topics forum so that it remains easily accessible to collectors in the future.

Marc

#59

john, where did that picture of the other star cab light come from? do you know what the one behind it is? tadcaster mabee?
i think it was andy that posted that he has been keeping a list of known cab lights. are any of the cab lights pictured on this thread not on your list? ..ron

#60

Actually, that Star Ale & Lager had been in my collection for some time, before it went to a friend of mine a while back

Ron, so far I haven't seen anything posted on here I'm not aware of, but a thread like this would be a likely place for
another unknown to come to light, a lot of good info. has been exchanged here.
I seem to hear of 2 or 3 previously-unknowns in a typical year, so it's slow going adding to the archive.

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