Top 10 Michigan cans

#31

I am thinking about cutting back on the cans that I keep, Michigan may not make the list of keepers. IF I do want to get rid of them anybody want em' ?? If will be a few weeks/months before make a final decesion, limited space in apartment living.

#32

Here is a picture. The can itself is only pictured in the Beer Can Collectors Bible, #64. The can pictured is a nice 1/1+, bottom opened zip tab, and in my collection. I was once told by another collector this was just an Altes tab top variation so not such a big deal. Well, it is one of only two located indoor white Altes zip tab cans, and only one dumper currently known. Before anyone asks, the can is definitely not available.

#33

Randy is that can for sale? Just kidding

. Glad to see you back posting more on the board again.
mike

#34

Chris

My brother found that Frankenmuth. It was a can in a can find. Traded him a Drewrys Lager for it. Guess I (unintentionally) ripped him off.

#35

You definitely ripped him off! Hopefully, the brotherly love overcomes your indiscretion.

NICE Frankenmuth dumper, there. Those are good 'n rare.

Oh...and Chuck...that wasn't a shot. Purely figurative. Had it been anything but, I'd have still been on the heavyweight list, myself. I recently put myself on a diet.

#36

Randy - Very unique looking Altes. What is your speculation as to the reason for the limited # made. Just simply a short run label design?

Wheaton - trade took place years ago and at the time all older cans in our minds had the same value. We were just swapping label designs

Joe P - Get over to Tampa and the Remund brothers will buy you a beer at the Tampa brew pub!!

#37

Clarkston1 wrote:Randy - Very unique looking Altes. What is your speculation as to the reason for the limited # made. Just simply a short run label design?

My speculation is that National went from red Altes flat (number of years, 1958-1963, fairly easy to find) to red Altes zip tabs (1963, one faced and two faced zips, not easy cans but still very obtainable), and then transitioned very late in 1964 to the white Altes zip tab design. My guess is white Altes zip only around very short time before National went to early style ring tab in 1965. Also, the white Altes zip has a really cool design characteristic, with metallic gold bands running horizontal through the red square. Someone in accounting probably figured out how expensive it was to create this design, and instead went to a less interesting design.

#38

Bob Patrick had a white Altes zip at a Frankenmuth show - probably 10 years ago - but it wasn't the prototype design. It was the typical mid 60s style label, which I believe also existed as a fan tab.

Unless Bob's was a relid (possible), then everybody may have yet another one to start chasing. Go get 'er, Leon!

#39

Wheaton wrote:Bob Patrick had a white Altes zip at a Frankenmuth show - probably 10 years ago - but it wasn't the prototype design. It was the typical mid 60s style label, which I believe also existed as a fan tab.

Unless Bob's was a relid (possible), then everybody may have yet another one to start chasing. Go get 'er, Leon!

Following the white Altes zip tab (long "A" as pictured in earlier post) is the above design, which has the older style brewery mandatory along the side, which does indeed come in early style fan tab, small ring, with "LIFT RING - PULL OPEN" (picked up a pretty nice bottom opened one two years back). I have also seen at least three examples of this can with unrolled top edge as if a "drinking cup". My guess a zip tab in this design would be a relidded drinking cup, but always possible some mistake runs were made where the wrong type lids applied.

#40

How tough are the American Eagle Goebel with "Goebel" in place of Gold Label and the yellow Frankenmuth Old English Ale white oval?

Can't remember finding that particular Goebel. Randy I remember you writing that it probably not distributed in Michigan. Great info and I will be more careful not to overlook that detail.

#41

Clarkston. The Goebel Goebel very tough indoor with probably less then 6 nice indoor. Probably 30 dumpers. LEON.

#42

Clarkston, Some of my Altes Tabs. I'm missing 2 White Altes tabs, Can anybody help? LEON.

#43

I obviously like Altes.

#44

Clarkston1 wrote:How tough are the American Eagle Goebel with "Goebel" in place of Gold Label and the yellow Frankenmuth Old English Ale white oval?

The Goebel "Goebel" is pretty tough, but more and more decent ones keep turning up. Small number of nice shiny indoor, but I have been seeing more pretty nice grade 2. There are way more than 30 dumpers. Heck, I have had six myself until I upgraded to a nice 1/1+.

As for the Frankenmuth Old English Ale white oval, this is surprisingly a very tough can. There aren't many nice indoor, and even offgrade seems tough to find. The example in your collection which you posted is pretty nice.

#45

I saw a pcture of a very clean Phoenix cone (Morean at B&G last year?) ---- and in this thread I take it that no dumpers are known ---- QUESTION: Where did the Phoenix cones come from, it sounds like they are from a single find (also- are they rolled?)?????

#46

Ajax Beer wrote:I saw a picture of a very clean Phoenix cone (Morean at B&G last year?) ---- and in this thread I take it that no dumpers are known ---- QUESTION: Where did the Phoenix cones come from, it sounds like they are from a single find (also- are they rolled?)?????

The following text was taken from my MBC website (I will probably rehost after B/G):

"IRTP, "Cap Sealed" side panel. This Michigan can was produced for just four months in 1944, making it tough to find in any condition. However, at least 10 or more fairly clean indoor are believed to exist. Story has it that a "pyramid" of Phoenix cones (believed to be 10 cans total) were found in the brewery's hospitality room, with the top/bottom rims soldered together to form a pyramid. Unfortunately no pictures of this pyramid are known to exist, but it has been confirmed by a collector who owned four of the cones that the solder marks lined up to form a portion of the pyramid."

My guess is the cans from the above pyramid were never filled. However, there are at least a couple of dumper Phoenix cones, and I have seen at least three which appear all original and have no signs of solder marks. I have also seen at least one super clean which had previously had the spout cut off (still had some teeth marks) and had been relidded. This brand was indeed filled and distributed, and there are even two spout variations (one gold, one silver).

I am sure there are more than 10 clean examples out there based on how many nice ones I have seen. I wouldn't call this super rare (especially if multiple have been available for purchase/trade lately) but it is highly desirable, and will run you major $$$ (last two I have seen had $6k sticker prices).

#47

I lost count but I think I've been through 3 Dumper Phoenix cones. Only 3 in Dumper form I've ever seen. I did not think They were producing cans in 1944 due to the governments orders to cease. Not sure how the Phoenix got a 1944 Date? LEON.

#48

Yeah, I start running out of fingers too. Ajax: Here's a dumper I got from Doctor Foley about 8 years back. It has some filler in a few spots but it displays okay. Eric Menning also dumped one up north of Bay City years back.

#49

Clarkston: I got this one from Leon (though this picture isn't lit very well, it's probably the nicest one known) when I traded him the one I used to own (2nd best known and pictured in the USBC). Dan Baker also had 2 nice ones he sold last year to Michigan collectors Randy and Dr. Foley.

#50

Clarkston: Also, here's what the back of the Heidelburg IRTP version looks like.

#51

Clarkston: In answer to the white oval Frankenmuth ale, I'd say it's way tougher than the Bock...but Bocks always bring more $$$$. Let's just say if I had the choice between an indoor Frankenmuth Bock or the white oval Ale flat, I'd take the white oval ale everytime.

But the cone below is a lot tougher...with no known indoor examples known to exist...and possibly only 6 - 10 dumpers. The Louisville, KY plant they opened and closed a few years later had left over stock so to re-coupe some of the cans, they frankenmuth had the can company black out the Kentucky plant info and paint the Michigan plant info underneath it.

#52

Chris, You own one of my 3 Phoenix Dumpers. Doc Foley got that one from Me. LEON.

#53

No, I got this from Kevin Foley. It was his can. A good deal for only $12.00 too.

#54

Longopener wrote:Clarkston: I got this one from Leon (though this picture isn't lit very well, it's probably the nicest one known) when I traded him the one I used to own (2nd best known and pictured in the USBC). Dan Baker also had 2 nice ones he sold last year to Michigan collectors Randy and Dr. Foley.

Chris. I still have high-res pictures of all three of the above cans hosted at:

http://www.mbcinfo.com/Goebel

Also saw a pretty good "1-" example picked up by a dealer at the KC canvention for $75. Sadly it was on a dealer's website for 5 times this price couple of days later. Wish I could have put this into another Michigan collector's hands for the same $75 price.

#55

Great looking Frankenmuth. What a cool variation.

They are doing a lot of renovation down here in Florida, if I find anything decent I will try and do some trading for Michigan cans.

A better picture for posterity.

#56

Clarkston1: You're in Florida, home of Michigan cans! You probably have a better chance scoring some tough Michigan cans down there than we do up here where they were filled. I've seen lots of nice indoor Michigan cans with FLORIDA stamped on the lids (Patrick Henry Malt Liquor, Goebel's, Cardinals). Michigan has always been a vacation and retirement destination for Michiganders so it's little wonder the brewing industry catered to that market.

BTW, the Heidelburg IRTP cone pictured above was found recently in a bar about 50 miles EAST of Tampa!

Chris

#57

Somebody above mentioned the ink-stamped IRTP Schmidt cone as one of the toughies. I thought I'd share a couple pictures of mine. Andy and I found a handful of these in a northern MN resort dump a few years back. They have the IRTP statement ink-stamped along the seam and also there is an alcohol statement ink-stamped on the concave bottom. Interesting can.

#58

Man oh man what a great thread! I just loved all the pics of the Michigan cans. Thanks guys!

#59

It is amazing how quickly a thread can get old on this site. It seemed like yesterday that I was following along. Thought I would pass on a little story. I too have taken a liking to Michigan cans, I think it started with that silly Pfeiffer Happy Mugs can. I hadn't thought much about all the yellow Pfeiffer variation until you guys mentioned the 'white shoes, blue pants'. I had been watching a can on e-bay and got a message back saying the item was ending soon. In the e-mail was a yellow pfeiffer with 'white shoes, blue pants' with buy it now for 10 bucks or best offer. Gotta take a fly on that. Based on the sellers other stuff, seemed legit especially for 10 bucks. Can was definitely dumped.

I received the can the other day. Unfortunately, looks to be a fake. The blue in the pants and hat match real nice, but the color seems off, a little too blue. Maybe marker? If you smell smoke, there's probably fire. Plus, wrong canning company. This one is an IRTP from American Can. Have to admit the whole thing had my heart rate going and it was fun while it lasted. You win some, you lose some.

#60

Giant Beer wrote:It is amazing how quickly a thread can get old on this site. It seemed like yesterday that I was following along.

Man, you have that right. If you miss a few days even threads that were very active can end up many pages back in short amount of time.

Giant Beer wrote:Plus, wrong canning company. This one is an IRTP from American Can.

Pretty sure all IRTP Johnny Pfeiffer are from American Canning Company, and should be white pants, white shoes. The blue pants, white shoes is only known to appear non-IRTP, and from Continental Canning Company.

Did you happen to see my Rustlings article, "Yellow Johnny Gone Wild", Rustlings, May 2006, pgs 15-18? Twenty one different variations were documented, and my guess more minor variations yet to be found.