Top 10 Michigan cans

#1

What would be the Top 10 Rarest Michigan cans?
Flattops and Conetops only

I have been out of the hobby for awhile and am looking to get back in mostly because of this site.

My (humble) opinion. Top 3 seem pretty easy

1. Regal
2. Beer - Crowntainer
3. Phoenix
4. Goebel - OD
5. Altes Crowntainer-Rare variation exists?
6. Fox Deluxe - OD
7. Honer's - On Grade
8. Old Gold - 4 Panel variation - Think I read about this
9. Schmidt's Quart
10. Patrick Henry - Magistrate Can

Wild Card- Sebewaing Bock Test Can -

Sure I missed something but best I could due for now.

#2

dont forget the white ALtes zip!!!!

out

dan

#3

my top ten looks similar

1. Regal OI
2. Beer crowntainer
3. Goebel OD
4. Fox Deluxe OD
5. White Altes Zip
6. 16 oz red Altes tab
7. Goebel Bock white version on grade
8.Schmidt's qt cone
9. Honer on grade (hi pro or j-spout)
10 phoenix cone
tie. Patrick Henry - Magistrate Can

I did not include the Altes crown withdrawn free since it is a variation of an easier can, but would be high up there if variations count. Also excluded was the white Altes crowntainer (I am not 100% sure it is a really a different can)

#4

Hey Clarkston -

I specialized in Michigan cans for a long time. You've got some heavy hitters on your list, and I wouldn't argue with many of them. I think, though, that I would replace the Magistrates can with the 16oz Altes zip (red and gold can). You'll have a Pat Henry if you look around for a awhile, but you'll play hell finding the Altes.

There are a lot of tough Michigan cans that go overlooked. I don't have my USBC in front of me to give a reference number, but don't forget the Schmidt's flat with the cone-sized label. Uber-tough! I can barely account for five of those that I was ever aware of, and wasn't quite willing to upchuck the 2 grand required to buy one.

#5

Woops! Sorry, Alex. Looks like I stepped on your post without knowing it...

#6

As a Michigan specialist, I'll give this a try too! These are not necessarily based on desirability...but rather rarity and number known)

Regal (4 known)

Beer Crowntainer (2 known)

Black Lined Frankenmuth Air Free Beer cone (black line over Kentucky location) Unknown in Indoor. 6 - 8 dumpers

Old Gold 4 panel (for Food City at Manhattan--- 1 known)

Old Gold (4 panel w/ Food City only)

Yellow Pfeiffer (Blue pants & White shoes by Continental Can Co. - 6 known: 1 indoor and 4 dumpers)

Fox DeLuxe OD

Short Label Silver Schmidts flat

16 oz. Enamel Goebel PS 22

Goebel Extra Dry Withdrawn Free

Tabs:

Red Altes 16 oz Zip (3 Known - 1 indoor & 2 dumpers)

White Altes Zip Top

Colt Malt Lager

#7

Clarkston1 wrote:What would be the Top 10 Rarest Michigan cans?
Flattops and Conetops only

I agree mostly with Chris' list, since only two of those cans are in my collection (a nice ongrade Fox Deluxe OD and a 1/1+ bottom opened white Altes zip). Since you asked for only flat tops and cone tops, I would include the enamel Goebel 16oz flat. During the four years of my MBC photography I was not able to locate an indoor example to photograph, and only able to locate a couple of dumpers.

As for pure rarity, the Beer crowntainer (2 known) rarer than the Detroit Regal (at least four, possibly five known). However, the Beer crowntainer is a butt ugly green and white crown while the Regal falls into the OI category which is much higher demand these days. Both Old Gold four panels probably rarer than the Regal in terms of number known.

I personally think the red 16oz Altes zip is the toughest Michigan can. When I first started MBC photography December, 2002, I asked many 16oz specialists where I could photograph the example pictured in the Class book. Many of these guys were not even aware of the can existing, let alone ever seeing one. Fortunately I was able to photograph Chris' offgrade example, but nobody knew where the Class example went. Just by chance the exact can pictured in the Class book was brought to Blue/Gray 2005 to be photographed for the new tab top book, and I was lucky to be able to also take my own pictures. Sadly, this one time indoor can, purchased, bottom opened and drank by the current owner, is at best now a grade 2, now with moisture/humidity damage. There may no longer be an ongrade example of this.

As for the Phoenix cone or Patrick Henry Magistrate flat, there are plenty of them out there, so not in my top 10 based on rarity. However, actually acquiring one ongrade will run you easily four figures, so while not super rare, they are both super expensive.

Clarkston1: I will reply more detail regarding my MBC website in private message. I will very likely rehost this content one day, just was fed up with those that don't care about stealing pictures, don't care that someone spending major time/$$$/effort so they could view or take things for free, that I simply said "screw it" and not currently worth my time.

#8

Had never heard of the Goebel OD untill I recently bot the USBC Book. Goebel cans seems to be either very easy or very tough.

Found one 16 oz Goebel in my Torch Lake dumping days. The USBC 229-27, but never any Bocks. It was in bad shape so we didn't pay much attention to it and must have gotten tossed out.

Sebewaings were common but always liked that label design.

#9

Looks like I'm late getting in on the Conversation. Figured I'd have to say something being a Michigan specialist. Clarston, You got it figured out pretty good for being away so long & new to it. Does this mean your are going to Specialize in Michigan cans along with about 10 other Michigan collectors?
Heres my top 10:
#1 CARDINAL ( gold & white rolled test can, 1 known)
#2 ALTES crowntainer (white & legite possibly? 1 known)
#3 BEER crowntainer (Propellar can, 2 known)
#4 OLD GOLD ( 4 panal, 1 known)
#5 REGAL O/I (4 known)
#6 SCHMIDTS QUART
#7 SCHMIDTS FLAT (small label like cone)
#8 GOEBEL OD
#9 FOX DELUXE OD
#10 PHOENIX

If your counting Variation then add Withdrawnfree Altes Crontainer to list. Only one known. Also add my 2 Colt 45 Flat tops, Only ones known. Add Chucks find 2 label strohs flats. Add my Pfeiffer (teardrop) Fan tab only one known, Schmidts fan tab, ect, ect.

Top 5 Michigan pull tabs:
#1 WHITE ALTES ZIP TOP (I need this can bad, who has one?)
#2 ALTES RED ZIP TOP 16 oz
#3 COLT ZIP TOP
#4 GOEBEL ZIP TOP ( like the private stock but no private stock,beer)
#5 SCMIDTS FAN TAB

#10

Man, this is like the glory days! A few players haven't weighed in yet (Chuck, Keith, Doc)...but many of the responses will likely be similar.

These cans are goofy because you can either talk about "rarest" in terms of unique labels, or "rarest" in terms of touchy, minor variations. Either perspective will yield valid toughies. The blue pants/white shoes Pfeiffer, for instance, can be safely considered every bit as rare as a Regal in terms of numbers known. Yet despite the existence of a couple examples that have great color, show the can company variation well, and present a readily observable face variation - some would call it a major variation - even the USBC crew didn't seem to consider them interesting enough to photograph for the book. Then, there's the general desirability factor. Who wouldn't shelf a Regal over a Pfeiffer? Quickly, you'll begin to realize how underrated and ignored many of these labels are.

The dump that produced three of these Pfeiffer cans brought the known total to five. That very same dump also coughed up, as I recall, two more yellow Pfeiffers by National Can. Officially rarer than a Regal...but again, nowhere near the appeal.

Clarkston - if you're going to jump on this bandwagon, you'll be in good company. I completely enjoyed the other Michigan guys, past and present, for many years. Just prepare yourself for an intense education. If you don't care about variations, build shelves for about 80 cans. And if you like variations, bump that up closer to 300...to include two gallons and at least five quart cones. That'll keep you busy for the next 20 years and carry your label lineage through about 1965.

Beyond that, it's between you and your lumber company. Good luck, and enjoy! They're a great specialty area!

GO BLUE!

#11

Leon-
Always kept an interest in collecting even though I was not active. Had the old Beer Cans Unlimited Book for years and with the internet would pick up the information and the occasional can now and then.

Actually bot an on grade T-Bird Goebel with the patents pending and a great condition Heidelburg Conetop from Keith Belcher's web site a year or two ago.

With sites like this and Randy's and Chuck Starrett site on the internet I decided to get started again. Dumping for cans was a blast w/my brothers. We did not know about pit dumps so probably missed out on buried cans. Northern Michigan was great to find old cans, maybe still is?

Parents owned a business in Flint close to the old Valley Brewing Co building. Somewhere around here is a old polariod pic of me standing in the 2nd floor window in that building holding a really bad condition Heidelburg cone with a big smile on my face. Kind of dangerous area and parents would get mad if we would sneak in there. Actually in the basement we found a old Wiedemann pull tab and a Carling red cap flat.

Building caught fire and they tore it down 10 - 15 years ago. Another obscure Mi brewing company. Surprised they made cans so late and can does not seem to be more valuable.

#12

Wheaton - Def always liked Mi Cans, wish I would have kept that 16 oz Goebel but looks like it was tossed out somehow. With the clean up I see that is possible it might have turned out somewhat displayable.

Quick dumping story.

Moved out to NYC and walking home from work just happened to look into a dumpster by a building they were remoldeling and saw a number of ballantine and rheingold 16 0z flats. Looks like very easy cans but in perfect shape, except the workers were busting up the floors and had thrown a bunch of concrete on them and almost all but a few rheingold were crushed and scrapped up.

Hate to think of the number of rare cans that still get tossed out in that city

#13

Indeed. The Goebel 16s are neat-looking cans, and not found commonly. I went out scrappin' northern Michigan many times over the years, and I think I only found one of them. The enamel variation, as mentioned by others, is ridiculously rare. I had a G5 that came off eBay - I think Alex has that one now. (My memory is getting rustier than any can I ever owned.)

And, yes, the UP is still good dumping territory. It's next to impossible to go up there and find nothing. Good for Michigan cans...and touristy, as well, so it's not unheard of to find some offbeat brands. That list is just as long.

#14

When I made my post, I guess I didn't read the original post about just flats and cones. Dave reminded me about the Schmidt's short label flat. I completely forgot about that can. It definately belongs in the top ten as well as the Old Gold 4 panel (I didn't include that because it is a variation, although a major variation). Leon makes a good point about the Gold Cardinal can, although its probably a test can, so I won't put it in my updated top ten.

Also, the White Goebel bock there are plenty of dumpers, but on grade Detroit version is pretty darn tough, despite not being in the other people top ten.

1. Regal OI
2. Beer crowntainer
3. Goebel OD
4. Fox Deluxe O
5. Schmidt's short label flat (forgot that one originally)
6. Schmidt's qt cone
7. Honer on grade (hi pro or j-spout
8. Goebel Bock white on grade
9. Phoenix cone
10. Patrick Henry Magistrate

maybe the patrick henry doesn't belong in the top ten, but it is a very tough can and one of the coolest looking cans, so for me it is more desireable than some of the other cans listed (eg. Goebel 16 oz ps 22 enemal flat)

#15

triplealex

That Patrick Henry can is very sharp.

If anyone needs a Grade 3- or so Heidelburg Cone I will mail can out. Actually displays a little better than I thought.

#16

Clarkston, I need the Heidelburg Cone if it is IRTP? LEON.

#17

If Leon needs it , it must be Really Rare!!!

out

Dan

#18

Looks like the non-irtp.

#19

Clarkston1,

Welcome to the wonderful world of the Michigan Specialist. At times it can be frustrating, fun, happy, sad, bull$#!+, and about 100 other things. But overall there is a hardcore group of really great collectors that you are joining. All are more than willing to help anyway they can.

I never really thought of the top 10 toughest Michigan cones and flats, because there are so many that are next to impossible to obtain. All the cans mentioned so far deserve to be listed. As I tried to come up with my list I found I was having to leave some impossible cans off the list. So I took a different approach. Here are my toughest Cones, Flats, and Overall. I tried to base this on how many clean examples are known, how many dumper examples are known, if I like the can, if I have the can, and how many times I've had a shot at the can. I'm sure you will see some really tough cans you think should be listed missing. That is what makes this question so great.

Cones:

White Altes crowntainer
Beer crowntainer
Yellow Altes WF cronwtainer
Copper Club Strong Beer cone
Fox Deluxe 12oz cone (any)
E&B Light Lager cone with alcohol statement
Frankenmuth Air Free cone with black line
Honer's cone (any)
Copper Club cone with alcohol statement (any)
E&B Premium Beer cone non-irtp

Honorable mention: Schmidt's quart cone, Altes crowntainer with alcohol statement, Phoenix cone

Flats:

Old Gold 4 Panel OI, Manhattan
Old Gold 4 Panel OI, Food City
Goebel OD
Fox Deluxe OD
Regal
Goebel Extra Dry WF
Schmidt's by Schmidt's
Yellow Pfeiffer, white shoe and blue pants
16oz Goebel PS22 enamel paint
Frankenmuth Old English Ale, yellow label

Honorable mention: 11oz Goebel, Cardinal test can (only down here because it is a test can), White Goebel Bock (clean)

Overall:

White Altes crowntainer
Old Gold 4 Panel OI, Manhattan
Old Gold 4 Panel OI, Food City
Beer crowntainer
Goebel OD
Fox Deluxe OD
Yellow Altes WF cronwtainer
Regal
Copper Club Strong Beer cone
Goebel Extra Dry WF

And Dave, was that heavy weight comment a shot? I think it was.

#20

Somehow I forgot about the Fox Deluxe 12oz cone. Now that I think of it I think it should replace Phoenix on the #10 spot of mine. No indoor nice Fox Deluxe 12 oz cone from Michigan known but at least 10 indoor Phoenix cones known. Not many dumpers of either know. Clarston, If your Heidelburg is Non IRTP that is Typical, most are. LEON.

#21

I forgot a cone on the list. The Schmidt's Natural Brew with the stamped IRTP statement. I'd move the E&B Premium non-irtp down to honorable mention and put it in number 10.

#22

Leon or anybody else

I realize this is probably inappropriate, but then most things I do are. I'll trade my fine Fox for your sublime Silver State.

Don't let that shine on the back side fool you this can was not found in a wall.
Sorry for all of you who thought this cone rare. According to my postulate "If it's on my shelf then it ain't rare" this one just slipped into Coors Banquet status.

I just said "shine on the back side"

Out, out

El Basurero

#23

Colin,

No Silver Stae to trdae, but would be interested if the can is available.

#24

Colin, I actually have a nicer one. I'd trade if it was a different variation. Only problem is I cant really read my % on my can. If I figure it's different you may have a trade. Anybody else have this easy cone to trade? LEON.

#25

You know, everything I have is for trade and not in the sense of everything is for sale for the right price. I enjoy going to shows and picking up something new for the shelves, and it's better when I can trade. I like Colorado and Oklahoma cans and am always searching for those. And when we specialize the cans come less frequently. I'd enjoy trading the can to someone to fill a spot nearly as much as I'd like to receive one, albiet I'd be getting the better end of the deal, I feel, for a Silver State or many of the other Colorado cans I'm missing.

Colin

#26

Breaking out more cans from storage. Dumped the Miller, Fox Deluxe, Frankenmuth, Rams Head, and Old Bohemian. Rams Head was found in a shed with some kind of tape covering front.

Picked up the FBIR Blatz at a flea market at Brownwood Michigan years ago.

Chuck, thanks for all the info, your Bantam Ale and Goebel 16oz 229-27 are incredible!

Also included a picture of the old Tampa-Florida brewery

#27

I'm sure you know, but that building is now a law office. I've had the chance to go in and take a look around.

Couple of great Tampa cones you have there.

#28

By the way Clarkston, I'm in St. Pete myself.

#29

Clarkeston1: I see you dumped the tough white oval Frankenmuth Ale flat top!

#30

So I just learned about...40 new things in this thread. It is why I read it--too bad it took me so long to find this site.
Anyways...ok, so someone want to put a few words down about this Altes tab I keep reading about? Is it pictured in one of the books?

Top 10 Michigan cans

Top 10 Michigan cans

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