Who made the Class OI can?
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Who made the Class OI can?
Which brewery did the Class can come from? And why do you think so?
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Didn't Poth's buy out Class & Nachod? It seems Lilek had a blurb about that in his book, but my detail retention is flagging these days.
Must be the mercury levels in Lake Michigan...
Must be the mercury levels in Lake Michigan...
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BCCA-OI - page 183 wrote: Class Pilsner Beer. Circa: 1936. This American Can Company, 12 ounce container, lists Patents Pending and was filled for the Class and Nachod Brewing Company of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. The author was not able to locate any records validating the distribution of this package design. His conversation with Poth Family member's, the family that purchased The Class & Nachod Brewing Company in 1936, only verified that this brand was distributed in bottles and on draught in the Philadelphia area in 1936. They believe this package design was intended for distribution but was cancelled due to the pending sale of the brewery, as the Poth Brewing Company did not assume ownership of this brand. This beer can is believed to have originally been part of the Poth Family collection and was given to a local collector in the late 1950's. The can has since been either traded or sold at least two times since then. This Grade 1 example is the only example known to the author, and is believed to be unique.. Rarity Rating: R10
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Hey Rand,
Do you (or anybody else) have any articles relating to Tiger beer, it's roots, history, etc?
I read something on another forum about the Rusty Group several years ago going on a trip to locate the can, was an excellent read... just wondering if theres any info on it out there.
Do you (or anybody else) have any articles relating to Tiger beer, it's roots, history, etc?
I read something on another forum about the Rusty Group several years ago going on a trip to locate the can, was an excellent read... just wondering if theres any info on it out there.
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Lots of interesting angles and questions posed there. Looking through the old copyright and patent records would probably be a good course of action and may yield some results, although like the "Manhattan" cans themselves, those results may remain inconclusive. I think it's still disputed just how much influence the Chicago rackets actually had over these different breweries, not all of which were fictitious. In the case of Food City, for instance, they were a legitimate Battle Creek brewery. I doubt they ever canned anything at that location, begging the question as to why their name popped up on the assumedly Chicago-issued Old Gold O/I from that era. If the common lore is any guide, there may very well have been some degree of mob muscle behind little details like that. I always guessed - without much solid information - that the connection (if any) was probably something along these lines: "Hey there, Mr. Food City boss. Call me Vito, and this is my associate, Carlo the Hammer. Listen, we've come to offer you an opportunity to get your name seen outside of this little cow town - you know, some extra exposure for you. All we'd need to do is use your name on some products from our organization, you know...it'll be our little business arrangement. In return for your blessing, Carlo here will refrain from blowing you and your fancy mahogany desk full of holes...know what I'm sayin'? Good, beautiful, it's all arranged, then. You're a wise fellow, yes?" [grinning and gently patting Mr. Food City on the cheek.]
In truth, though, it's tough to infer much about what really did go on. Rich LaSusa is the hobby's resident expert on Manhattan, and he seems to contend that there's little reliable evidence of mob influence at all. Then again, wiseguys like Capone and Detroit's Purple Gang were pretty good about covering their tracks. A lot of those details will have been lost to the ages, regardless of where one goes to obtain information.
I'm no Pennsylvania brewery buff, but I've never heard anything to indicate that Class & Nachod was anything other than a legitimate brewery. That doesn't mean that there was no connection - however brief - between that brewery and the fellas in the Valentino suits...but as the poll results here indicate, none of the nine participants seem to have much consensus.
Also - U permits, while legally mandated, were still a little spotty. There are a host of other Patent Pending and Patents Pending flats that never carried a permit number (Krueger included), while others (Hop Gold and a later version of the red Miller O/I, for instance) carried the permits right into their Others Pending labels. Grain Belt, while not a flattop, had a U-Permit on all of their black cones...and that general design was used through at least 1940. Point being, the permits are a fairly reliable indicator of '33 - '36 vintage labels, but not a flawless one.
I'm a skeptic, and I doubt that any of us will ever conclusively nail down the connection between Manhattan and all those other little breweries. Theories abound, evidence is lacking. Fun stuff to consider, though.
In truth, though, it's tough to infer much about what really did go on. Rich LaSusa is the hobby's resident expert on Manhattan, and he seems to contend that there's little reliable evidence of mob influence at all. Then again, wiseguys like Capone and Detroit's Purple Gang were pretty good about covering their tracks. A lot of those details will have been lost to the ages, regardless of where one goes to obtain information.
I'm no Pennsylvania brewery buff, but I've never heard anything to indicate that Class & Nachod was anything other than a legitimate brewery. That doesn't mean that there was no connection - however brief - between that brewery and the fellas in the Valentino suits...but as the poll results here indicate, none of the nine participants seem to have much consensus.
Also - U permits, while legally mandated, were still a little spotty. There are a host of other Patent Pending and Patents Pending flats that never carried a permit number (Krueger included), while others (Hop Gold and a later version of the red Miller O/I, for instance) carried the permits right into their Others Pending labels. Grain Belt, while not a flattop, had a U-Permit on all of their black cones...and that general design was used through at least 1940. Point being, the permits are a fairly reliable indicator of '33 - '36 vintage labels, but not a flawless one.
I'm a skeptic, and I doubt that any of us will ever conclusively nail down the connection between Manhattan and all those other little breweries. Theories abound, evidence is lacking. Fun stuff to consider, though.
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I have a Lilek 117....2 panel Class & Nachods. Looks like the symbol is 68-A Bowtie.PreWar wrote:Also, do you or anyone have the any of the first three Black Eagle cans with Class & Nachod listed as the brewing Co? I am curious what can plant number is listed (small number lower left of seam)
Here are some pictures:
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Ok - here's the Class label Herman wants to see:
Also, I have both the PATENT PENDING (so much for unique as stated in Kev's book) & PATENTS PENDING Black Eagle cans - the side panels are identical the the Manhattan Beer 4-panel OI - Why in the world, would Class N., if their canning line did exsist, have Manhattan make Black Eagles but go elsewhere for the Class??? Dosn't make sense.
BTW - I love this label and who needs to spend $100K for the can - this is the next best thing! And what in the hell is Ambrosia doing brewing Class beer???? Too strong of a Chicago connection to have come from PA.
Also, I have both the PATENT PENDING (so much for unique as stated in Kev's book) & PATENTS PENDING Black Eagle cans - the side panels are identical the the Manhattan Beer 4-panel OI - Why in the world, would Class N., if their canning line did exsist, have Manhattan make Black Eagles but go elsewhere for the Class??? Dosn't make sense.
BTW - I love this label and who needs to spend $100K for the can - this is the next best thing! And what in the hell is Ambrosia doing brewing Class beer???? Too strong of a Chicago connection to have come from PA.
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Here's a Class SPARKLING ALE with PA.U.365. This certainly suggests the Ale brand was bottled at the PA brewery - especially since those right coasters love their Ale :) I agree with Ed, spend $10 for the label instead of $100K for the can! That flapper chick was the model for the hands on the 4 panel! - No Sienfield jokes please. Adios. Paul
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No Reg or Trademark on my label. There's a rubbed mark right where the can co info is on my PatenT Pending - but it looks like a 6, a space or rubbed out, next to an A. The PatentS pending also has a rust spot right where I need to look.
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so many posts came in while I was typing this, I hope I don't say something overly redundant.
Ed - that is a very, very cool label. The top of the picture is sort of washed out due to glare off the plastic...is there a permit printed under there somewhere that I can't make out? GREAT label!
I'm definitely on the bandwagon believing that Manhattan and Class were strongly connected, by the way. Nothing less than completely obvious. I also tend to believe that American most likely mocked up the Class can for proofing by C&N, perhaps in contemplation of some distribution/royalty rights deal legitimately underwritten by Manhattan. C&N may simply have been consumed by Poth's before such a deal ever got off the ground. I only tend to downplay the "syndicate scenario" as I did before because Manhattan, being located right in the heart of the nastiest knot of train tracks, roads and waterways this end of the solar system, had such ready-made access to a national distribution network. I wonder that wasn't the real method behind Manhattan's madness, irrespective of any mob influence that may have existed. What a post-Pro money card they could have played...brewing, packaging, and distribution for hire. Sort of like an antique twist on a more modern theme: A-B opening their distribution network to craft brewers. Getting fat off the competition, as it were.
Whether it was the Pacific northwest, Texas, Colorado, New Mexico, Louisiana, or wherever, Manhattan's products certainly "got around." Did they capitalize on their distribution potential, kicking up business in sparsely populated locales with limited competition from other brewers? If so, they'd have been tailor-made for symbiotic relationships with little breweries like C&N, Food City, Ambrosia, and the like. Furthermore, it's been common throughout post-Prohibition brewing history to produce, package, and distribute using a D/B/A. A good example that leaps to mind would be Associated owning the brand rights for Drewry's, Schmidt (Detroit), Jacob Schmidt, Pfeiffer, and others...using those brewery names on their labels instead of their own. Legal and legit. In fact, it would have been a smooth and productive business maneuver in the competitive post-Pro era to employ a strategy like that.
Absent any more real information, I've always sort of accepted this as the most plausible explanation for who and what Manhattan probably was. To bring that back around to the original poll question, I'm definitely behind the Class-Manhattan connection although I think a change of ownership probably put a halt to any distribution deal C&N may have considered making with Manhattan. The only question that remains for me: where were they planning to ship those Class cans?
And, are we absolutely certain they never did?
This has been a cool thread. Love that Class label...love it!
Ed - that is a very, very cool label. The top of the picture is sort of washed out due to glare off the plastic...is there a permit printed under there somewhere that I can't make out? GREAT label!
I'm definitely on the bandwagon believing that Manhattan and Class were strongly connected, by the way. Nothing less than completely obvious. I also tend to believe that American most likely mocked up the Class can for proofing by C&N, perhaps in contemplation of some distribution/royalty rights deal legitimately underwritten by Manhattan. C&N may simply have been consumed by Poth's before such a deal ever got off the ground. I only tend to downplay the "syndicate scenario" as I did before because Manhattan, being located right in the heart of the nastiest knot of train tracks, roads and waterways this end of the solar system, had such ready-made access to a national distribution network. I wonder that wasn't the real method behind Manhattan's madness, irrespective of any mob influence that may have existed. What a post-Pro money card they could have played...brewing, packaging, and distribution for hire. Sort of like an antique twist on a more modern theme: A-B opening their distribution network to craft brewers. Getting fat off the competition, as it were.
Whether it was the Pacific northwest, Texas, Colorado, New Mexico, Louisiana, or wherever, Manhattan's products certainly "got around." Did they capitalize on their distribution potential, kicking up business in sparsely populated locales with limited competition from other brewers? If so, they'd have been tailor-made for symbiotic relationships with little breweries like C&N, Food City, Ambrosia, and the like. Furthermore, it's been common throughout post-Prohibition brewing history to produce, package, and distribute using a D/B/A. A good example that leaps to mind would be Associated owning the brand rights for Drewry's, Schmidt (Detroit), Jacob Schmidt, Pfeiffer, and others...using those brewery names on their labels instead of their own. Legal and legit. In fact, it would have been a smooth and productive business maneuver in the competitive post-Pro era to employ a strategy like that.
Absent any more real information, I've always sort of accepted this as the most plausible explanation for who and what Manhattan probably was. To bring that back around to the original poll question, I'm definitely behind the Class-Manhattan connection although I think a change of ownership probably put a halt to any distribution deal C&N may have considered making with Manhattan. The only question that remains for me: where were they planning to ship those Class cans?
And, are we absolutely certain they never did?
This has been a cool thread. Love that Class label...love it!
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Maybe Rich La Susa will get his Chicago book out soon? The answers may be in there!
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Is there any evendence that the Class Can may have been produced FOR Class and Nachod?
A lot of breweries brewed and canned for other breweries. For example, a smaller brewery may not have had a canning line. So, they contracted a larger brewer to can beer in their name. Case in point, Oldstyle was brewed FOR Silver Springs by a brewer in Oregon.
Suppose the Class can was made for Class, but canned by Poth's or Manhattan, then distributed by them. And, suppose Class didn't sell that well, but, Black Eagle did. So when the brewery went under, Manhattan kept the good brand going and dumped the slug brand, Class.
Also, examining the can close up, could it be a mock up? You know, like the Five'O Clock Club can by Gettleman?
Vince
A lot of breweries brewed and canned for other breweries. For example, a smaller brewery may not have had a canning line. So, they contracted a larger brewer to can beer in their name. Case in point, Oldstyle was brewed FOR Silver Springs by a brewer in Oregon.
Suppose the Class can was made for Class, but canned by Poth's or Manhattan, then distributed by them. And, suppose Class didn't sell that well, but, Black Eagle did. So when the brewery went under, Manhattan kept the good brand going and dumped the slug brand, Class.
Also, examining the can close up, could it be a mock up? You know, like the Five'O Clock Club can by Gettleman?
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Hey PAul
can you post a pix of your abc label by manhattan?
out
dan
can you post a pix of your abc label by manhattan?
out
dan
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Re: Who made the Class OI can?
a picture of the brewery sign on the building taken at the Valley Forge canvention
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Re:
My Patent Pending Black Eagle has 68 AX.Cap-Sealed wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:01 pm No Reg or Trademark on my label. There's a rubbed mark right where the can co info is on my PatenT Pending - but it looks like a 6, a space or rubbed out, next to an A. The PatentS pending also has a rust spot right where I need to look.
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Re: Who made the Class OI can?
That's not an 'X', its an American Can "bow-tie" with one end open date code that indicates 1936
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