What am I missing here?

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What am I missing here?

#1

Post by ConeAddict »



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Re: What am I missing here?

#2

Post by Clarkston1 »

Some other surprises at least for me....and the live bidding hasn’t even started for these yet.
I get the Oconto is an unknown variation but still quite a large premium over the more common.
Glad the hobby is alive and well.
Condition and all original can be a big driver in price as usual.
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Re: What am I missing here?

#3

Post by mtracy64 »

I at least understand the reasoning on the Oconto; it's virtually impossible to put a value to a can of that rarity unless you're one of they guys who's got to have it.

The biggest surprise so far, though, is that I actually won a can. It will be nice to finally have a Chester that's better than my Silver Dime . . . that's bugged me since I upgraded the Silver Dime about 15 years ago. I was willing to go $3,000 or so and expected to lose, so I'm pretty happy and very surprised.

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Re: What am I missing here?

#4

Post by Dan B »

We had the find of 4 silver Oconto flat sheets, I still have one unrolled sheet. That is probably one we sold to Gene, not for anywhere close to that number. Also sold one in our auction, not even close to that number.

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Re: What am I missing here?

#5

Post by mtracy64 »

Dan B wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:09 pm We had the find of 4 silver Oconto flat sheets, I still have one unrolled sheet. That is probably one we sold to Gene, not for anywhere close to that number. Also sold one in our auction, not even close to that number.

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Thanks - I was assuming it was unique. I no longer understand the number.

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Re: What am I missing here?

#6

Post by ConeAddict »

mtracy64 wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:04 pm I at least understand the reasoning on the Oconto; it's virtually impossible to put a value to a can of that rarity unless you're one of they guys who's got to have it.

The biggest surprise so far, though, is that I actually won a can. It will be nice to finally have a Chester that's better than my Silver Dime . . . that's bugged me since I upgraded the Silver Dime about 15 years ago. I was willing to go $3,000 or so and expected to lose, so I'm pretty happy and very surprised.

Marc
Congrats, that is a really sweet can. I had one I bought from Ted Larson not quite as nice as yours but still 1-, I think I paid $1250 and sold it for less a couple of years later. It was a real head scratcher to me as those are really attractive and you never see them. I had a similar experience with an Erlanger low pro, it's weird to me how such rare,old, and attractive labels don't get much love while much more common cans are becoming impossible to afford.
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Re: What am I missing here?

#7

Post by mtracy64 »

ConeAddict wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:13 pm
mtracy64 wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:04 pm I at least understand the reasoning on the Oconto; it's virtually impossible to put a value to a can of that rarity unless you're one of they guys who's got to have it.

The biggest surprise so far, though, is that I actually won a can. It will be nice to finally have a Chester that's better than my Silver Dime . . . that's bugged me since I upgraded the Silver Dime about 15 years ago. I was willing to go $3,000 or so and expected to lose, so I'm pretty happy and very surprised.

Marc
Congrats, that is a really sweet can. I had one I bought from Ted Larson not quite as nice as yours but still 1-, I think I paid $1250 and sold it for less a couple of years later. It was a real head scratcher to me as those are really attractive and you never see them. I had a similar experience with an Erlanger low pro, it's weird to me how such rare,old, and attractive labels don't get much love while much more common cans are becoming impossible to afford.
Thanks. I've seen a decent number of indoor examples, but most are grade 2-ish. Pricing on tougher labels with condition issues have been all over the map at different times since I got back into the hobby in 1989, but in general they have been pretty strong in recent years - strong enough that I usually get outbid on the ones I want anyhow. I haven't seen Ted offer too many tougher, slightly offgrade cans in recent years, but he's historically been very fair on that type of can - I used to feast on his 25% and 50% off totes. But, weird things happen too. I picked up a nice Fitzgerald's Beer J for $350 from one of Dan's auctions a couple years ago, and I later noticed it was the same can Ted had sold for $1,500 on his website. I considered it a $600 to $750 can when I won it, and I still do.

Dan got $1,300 for this Chester at auction in December, and it has a number of large flaws in really bad spots. The colors on the front of my downgrade are a bit light, but it still displays better than this can. I bought it in 1998, so it's worth quite a bit more than I paid too.

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Re: What am I missing here?

#8

Post by ConeAddict »

I checked after you said that about the Fitz J and sure enough the can I had is still on his website. A little spottier than I remembered but it's definitely one of those "nicer in your hand" labels. I know I didn't pay $1500 for it but I can see why maybe my ebay auction didn't do as well as I hoped. Condition is king.

https://www.steelcanvas.com/galleries/chester-2/
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Re: What am I missing here?

#9

Post by mtracy64 »

ConeAddict wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:03 pm I checked after you said that about the Fitz J and sure enough the can I had is still on his website. A little spottier than I remembered but it's definitely one of those "nicer in your hand" labels. I know I didn't pay $1500 for it but I can see why maybe my ebay auction didn't do as well as I hoped. Condition is king.

https://www.steelcanvas.com/galleries/chester-2/
Heck, I would have bought that if I had seen it.
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Re: What am I missing here?

#10

Post by Clarkston1 »

That Chester was a great pick-up. Always liked that can.
I regret not grabbing one of the Silver Dimes that were showing up like 10 years ago.
Thought this Pabst was a pretty good price for the seller!
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Re: What am I missing here?

#11

Post by ConeAddict »

I was watching that Pabst, I am usually not one to buy rolled cans but since it was unique and I was in a spending mood was going to go as high as $2K LOL. Is that the highest price ever for a Pabst can?
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Re: What am I missing here?

#12

Post by Clarkston1 »

Surprised I picked up this can.
Put a half hearted bid in and won.
Off grade but a decent little addition to the Florida collection.
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Re: What am I missing here?

#13

Post by mtracy64 »

Clarkston1 wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:41 pm That Chester was a great pick-up. Always liked that can.
I regret not grabbing one of the Silver Dimes that were showing up like 10 years ago.
Thought this Pabst was a pretty good price for the seller!
Thanks, the pair from Chester are certainly amongst my favorites. That movement on the Silver Dimes years ago was amazing - I upgraded and my downgrade sold twice in relatively short order, the new one from the Chester, PA find turned up and the buyer of that one upgraded twice in relatively short order; it seemed like they were popping up every month or two and gave the impression that there are more of them then there actually are. All of that movement was on only the five cans. One of the original find of six hasn't moved in 40 years, and another one stayed put during the craziness we saw. The can from the Chester, PA find is the only one I know of besides the original six. Dan Morean told me the Silver Dime is easily his most requested cone.

The Pabst did sell for a lot of money, but it was toward the low end of my estimated range. A large brewery like Pabst is so heavily collected that it's very difficult to put a value on a unique variation, though.

Nice pickup on the Silver Bar - great looking can!

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Re: What am I missing here?

#14

Post by mtracy64 »

ConeAddict wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:05 pm I was watching that Pabst, I am usually not one to buy rolled cans but since it was unique and I was in a spending mood was going to go as high as $2K LOL. Is that the highest price ever for a Pabst can?
I would expect that the 64 oz. aluminum cone would sell higher than that, but not sure. The Lewandowski twins got $8,000 apiece for a pair of earlier unique WF Pabst Exports when they sold their collection in 2001, and $7,500 for a unique WF block letter Pabst Old Tankard Ale. The buyer's premium on today's auction pushes it past those, though. Not sure if you're counting Ales, but the white Old Tankard Ale sold in five figures when it turned up 20-some years ago. Kevin Lilek traded eight cans for the pictured (but no longer unique) first Old Tankard Ale, and four of those eight cans brought roughly $12,500 in Dan's auction last month.

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Re: What am I missing here?

#15

Post by Rand »

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I am so glad I'm out of the OI game. This WF Peoria Blue Ribbon would have killed me. I did have the only WF Milwaukee Blue ribbon I know of, and would have been pressured to put it's cousin on the shelf next to it. Side note, the WF Milwaukee only sold for $400 and in much worse condition:

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Re: What am I missing here?

#16

Post by Clarkston1 »

Final prices on the 007 and Blatz yellow color series can.

I could maybe see a white stripe 007 sell for over 5K but this seems like a record price for this variation. I think that because it had an original top and wasn’t “bottom- opened” helped.

The color series Blatz are sharp cans but I know very little about them.
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Re: What am I missing here?

#17

Post by ConeAddict »

The yellow Blatz is relidded and has scratches on the face, it was probably the worst of the 4 Xmas cans in the auction. The other 3 went a little high too, especially the blue, but not even in the same stratosphere as this yellow can. The only thing I can think of is someone put in a nuke bid and then another guy kept trying to find the max bid and eventually got convinced that the yellow cans are rare. FWIW a relidded yellow can went for a little over $300 on ebay in the last couple of months. But maybe I am missing some sort of variation here.


Marc,

Thanks for the info on the higher priced Pabst cans, sort of like the discussion on the Manhattan with or without the "patents" I guess I assumed that while the variations are sought after the price for rare variations while a little spendier don't go that high. There was metallic OTA in the Rand auction that didn't get even get 2K and I think you said you landed a very rare long opener in that same price range in another auction. So I was looking at this rolled can as $2-3K but I was clearly wrong about that.
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Re: What am I missing here?

#18

Post by mtracy64 »

I didn't watch the 007 go off - if anybody here did, were there a lot of floor bids? The only way I can make any sense of this result is to attribute it to collectors of James Bond or pop culture, and would guess that they found the can on of the other platforms Dan's auctions run on.

The Blatz has had the top lid replaced, so wow on top of wow! I'm far from an expert on these cans, but the dark blue and green are the most obtainable. I thought pink and light blue were the toughies, with the others falling somewhere in between, but this $5,000+ result might suggest that yellow is the toughie? Recent eBay results show $1,000+ results for dark blue and green in nice shape, along with another pair at $760 and $810. Orange, yellow, light blue and pink show only offgrade examples with significant spotting, etc. I found two different Blatz vanity lids used on these cans, but it looks like they were used only for states requiring tax lids (Ohio) or when an alcohol statement was required. Results from dealer sites are old enough to be of little value except to note that most examples sold there were dark blue or green. Demand clearly exceeds supply, though, even for the more obtainable dark blue and green. There are many Wisconsin collectors, probably even more set can collectors, and we've often discussed the trend of rising prices for cans from the nationals and large regionals. It will be interesting to what the next yellow one brings.

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Re: What am I missing here?

#19

Post by mtracy64 »

ConeAddict wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:28 am
Marc,

Thanks for the info on the higher priced Pabst cans, sort of like the discussion on the Manhattan with or without the "patents" I guess I assumed that while the variations are sought after the price for rare variations while a little spendier don't go that high. There was metallic OTA in the Rand auction that didn't get even get 2K and I think you said you landed a very rare long opener in that same price range in another auction. So I was looking at this rolled can as $2-3K but I was clearly wrong about that.
It is difficult to understand why Rand's metallic Ale didn't go higher, though Morean Auctions was still in its infancy at that time and good deals could be had far more often than they can now. It's also interesting to note that a large portion of the "high side" surprises in Rand's auctions were on dumper cans, which is weird because Dan hasn't dealt with that type of stuff very much for a long time. Some of the cleaner cans may have done better in a separate auction, but that's obviously speculative.

I suspect the long opener variation I won from The Good Guys was overlooked by some. The last variation of the long opener can has become fairly common over the years, and there was nothing in the title or description highlighting the variation. The condition is pretty good but not great, and the description really only said "probable re-lid" and "as good or better than the book can".

The "unique" factor is significant too, and this WF can checks a lot of other boxes. You've got the Pabst specialists, Milwaukee/Wisconsin specialists, OI specialists, WF specialists, plus guys who just like cans which are very rare or unique. Add stellar condition and you've got a perfect storm. The Lewandowskis collected everything before cutting back to just flat tops, but they also had a particular affinity for WF, Pabst and the color section of the Class Book, and they were quite aggressive in pursuing cans they needed. Kevin Lilek collected all OI's, but he also had an affinity for Pabst.

While it is easy to see Rand's point regarding the collecting of OI's, this particular can wouldn't create a problem for me - I'd have no problem letting it pass and putting the money into labels that made me want to collect the early cans in the first place. This one, in my opinion, is for a guy who has a dump truck full of money.

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Re: What am I missing here?

#20

Post by WISCONSINCANMAN »

Great read ! I consider you guys very knowledgeable, and enjoy all your comments, and insight. :)
Wisconsin cans wanted!!!

Trade me your Wisconsin cans, my most wanted, Old Wisconsin
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Re: What am I missing here?

#21

Post by Rand »

mtracy64 wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:04 am It is difficult to understand why Rand's metallic Ale didn't go higher, though Morean Auctions was still in its infancy at that time and good deals could be had far more often than they can now. It's also interesting to note that a large portion of the "high side" surprises in Rand's auctions were on dumper cans, which is weird because Dan hasn't dealt with that type of stuff very much for a long time. Some of the cleaner cans may have done better in a separate auction, but that's obviously speculative.
Side note for historical purposes.....the Metallic Pabst OT .....I found it on ebay for $578 .....oddly enough through breweriania.com. So the $1000 bump I got in selling it was fine by me. As to the other surprises....I honestly couldn't make any sense of why the Old Dutch brought $1500 more than the Liebmann's....or the Ranier brought $1500.....or 20 or 30 other head scratchers. The bottom line on the whole thing is that on average, I did fine. Lost my shirt on several.....and got jaw dropping price tags on others. Can't make heads or tails out of can prices these days.

Rand :-)
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Re: What am I missing here?

#22

Post by YooperAho »

eh! yooeraho here. What the Monkey Stink! Dude must Have Been BLATZED :smt025 :smt028 :smt029 :smt030 :smt030 :smt030
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Hope it was Bottom Opened.
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Re: What am I missing here?

#23

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Re: What am I missing here?

#24

Post by Summitcan »

Back in the olden days
Green , blue , orange would be like $200 ,
The pink , if you were lucky enough to find one , would be a bit more .
The yellow would be like $140 Because it’s appearance wasn’t
much different than the common regular issue.
To me it makes Goog Goog sense !
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Re: What am I missing here?

#25

Post by mtracy64 »

I know green and dark blue were going for $300 to $400 for a long time, but I don't know what the others were going for then. A full set sold for $3,500 five years ago. Some of these results are downright discouraging, though. It will be interesting to see how cans are priced at shows.

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Re: What am I missing here?

#26

Post by ConeAddict »

mtracy64 wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:10 am I know green and dark blue were going for $300 to $400 for a long time, but I don't know what the others were going for then. A full set sold for $3,500 five years ago. Some of these results are downright discouraging, though. It will be interesting to see how cans are priced at shows.

Marc
I picked up my green and blue for around $400 and $500 in the last year. Both while not quite minty are grade 1 AND all original. Those blue/green cans going for 4 figures seems like a pretty recently development to me although I only started following the cans when I decided to collect them. We are probably wasting too much time on the yellow Blatz and the 007 here as who knows if they even get paid for, but I worry prices are getting way past demand. I always thought it is just a bunch of us collectors driving up prices by buying and selling from each other, not ideal but as long as the prices are stable we don't win/lose. But it is discouraging to go in thinking you have hefty bid in mind and you aren't even half way there.
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Re: What am I missing here?

#27

Post by beercanman »

The Pabst went to a WF collector. Me. And I think I paid right around what the can should have gone for. Ultra rare WF cans don’t hit the market with the same frequency as OI or Bock cans with the same rarity, so when you get a shot at something like this you gotta go hard or go home.

I’d be kicking myself for years if I hadn’t tried to pick it up. And no, I don’t have a dump truck full of cash, I just decide where to spend my discretionary money and do it happily.

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Re: What am I missing here?

#28

Post by mtracy64 »

beercanman wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:22 am The Pabst went to a WF collector. Me. And I think I paid right around what the can should have gone for. Ultra rare WF cans don’t hit the market with the same frequency as OI or Bock cans with the same rarity, so when you get a shot at something like this you gotta go hard or go home.

I’d be kicking myself for years if I hadn’t tried to pick it up. And no, I don’t have a dump truck full of cash, I just decide where to spend my discretionary money and do it happily. Image

Steve
I wasn't aware you would play at that level, but I can't think of a better home for the can. Congratulations!

I never spent more than $350 on a can until I began to specialize, and part of the point of specializing was to contain spending and focus on the cans I wanted most. Chances at the exotics are scarce and shouldn't be squandered.

Marc
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