ABC 1975-1988 Book

[MI-Cans]

In 1989, the BCCA published “AMERICAN BEER CANS, 1975-1988”. Before the advent of the hard cover volumes (I & II) and the Supplements, this was my reference for cans. After the books and the Supplements came out, I noticed there were cans in the ABC book that never showed up in the newest references.

A long time ago I started a list of these cans. After getting numb with current projects, I decided to finish that list. So here it is. I skipped over major brands that had many cans shown but I couldn’t discern the fine details to include or exclude them. So be aware that it’s not a complete or finite list. There are at least 330 cans that I was able to recognize that they were not in the Supplements. It only covers 12oz cans as that’s my primary niche.

I put this together for my own reference. I’m glad to share it with anyone finding it useful.

DISCLAIMER:
This is NOT intended to be critical of the Supplements or the people working on them. You won’t find a bigger supporter of them than me.

(MI-Cans)

ABC Book 1975-88.pdf

(235.15 KiB) Downloaded 126 times

[jimw630]

The New Cans Database is focused on cataloging (and trying to keep up with) all of the new cans out there. However they have graciously allowed me to add cans that I come across that are missing from the database, such as those on your list.

I have been adding some of these to the Database if they are Sta-Tab cans. I have been slowly cataloging my own collection and have been adding cans I come across that are missing, such as those in your list. For example, I just added the two Alligator cans yesterday, and some Augsburger cans a few days ago.

Your list will definitely be helpful!

[MI-Cans]

@jimw630
Thank you for your work on the New Cans Database (NCDB).

I have been adding some of these to the Database if they are Sta-Tab cans.

That’s confusing to me. Every can in the ABC 1975-1988 book is a tab, Pull or Sta. And each one existed prior to the publication of Volume II. I always believed that New Cans DataBase would encompass anything produced after the Volume II publication year (that was 2007). I always also assumed that a specific year should be the cutoff date for the database (rather than a type of lid). At least it makes more sense to me that way.

• Volume I contains Flat Tops, Cone Tops and Crowntainers of varying sizes.
• Volume II contains Self-Opening cans, Zip Tops, Pull Tabs and Stay-Tabs also of varying sizes. I thought it would also eventually absorb all the content from the ABC 1975-1988 book.
• New Cans DataBase contains everything starting after 2007 (Vol II publication date).

Obviously, that’s not the case. I searched for the earliest release date in the NCDB. I found a Little Kings can identified as 1988 (happens to be your entry). You might mention to someone that the list of “Years” needs some editing?

Wikipedia states the following:

Stay-on-tab
In 1975, Daniel F. Cudzik, an engineer with Reynolds Metals, filed a design patent application for an "End closure for a container".[19] This later became known as a "Sta-Tab". When the Sta-Tab launched in 1975, on Falls City beer and, quickly, other drinks, there was an initial period of consumer testing and education. Cudzik later received patents for this "Easy Open Wall" (US 3967752, issued 1976-07-06 US 3967753, issued 1976-07-06). The validity of these patents was upheld in subsequent litigation. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drink_can ... mechanisms )

The BCCA magazine also gives credit to Falls City for the earliest use of Stay Tabs.

The ABC 1975-1988 book is filled with both Pull Tabs and Sta-Tabs. How do you decide which “Sta-Tabs” go into the NCDB and which ones are destined for the Volume II Supplement?

There ARE already, a bunch of Sta-Tabs in Volume II in case anyone wants to know. Some are identified at T & S while others are just S.

Would really like to understand the thinking behind the placement of the cans into the respective databases.

As always, this is just my opinion.

(MI-Cans)

[Ted Wolfe]

I'm not a part of the Supplement project but it was my understanding that original Volumes were planned to include all steel cans (three piece and extruded) and some of them had sta-tab tops. Some aluminum cans were also included and I don't recall what the cut off point for them was, but none of them were supposed to be sta-tops, even in the Supplement project, although a few probably slipped in. Again, this isn't the official word, just my understanding of it.

[MI-Cans]

I was wrong in guestimating that 2007 should be the starting point for the New Cans Database. I went back and found this post regarding Craft Cans from January of 2016. viewtopic.php?p=336280#p336280

Oskar Blues is widely credited as being the first craft brewer to can their beer. This can be attributed to their being the first to can their beer "in-house" using their own canning line. A few other craft brewers however did try canning before 2002. Back in 1991, a beer called Chief Oshkosh Red Lager from Mid-Coast Brewing Inc., was canned at Stevens Point Brewery in Wisconsin. It was an all-malt red/amber lager that sold for $3.99 a six-pack. Sadly, among other things, it was this early alternative packaging that led to it's ultimate demise. Seven years later in 1998 another Wisconsin brewery, Capital Brewery, first canned their Wisconsin Amber, which is still canned today, also with the help of Stevens Point Brewery. A few years after that, in 2001, Brooklyn Brewery began canning their Brooklyn Lager which they still brew and can off-premise. Other early craft brewers that took a stab at canning with the help of larger breweries with canning lines were Pete's, Pyramid and Saranac. 2002 - The modern era of canned craft beer is born. Now synonymous with the canned beer revolution, or what they call the "Canned Beer Apocalpyse", Oskar Blues Grill & Brew, a small brewpub in the tiny Colorado town of Lyons, takes a big risk by beginning to hand-can their hopped-up pale ale in an old barn.

The quote was from the Craft Cans website (before they went social). If we're to accept that Chief Oshkosh Red Lager was one of if not the earliest Craft Can, then I would think that 1990-91 could be an arbitrary cutoff time frame to decide placement of cans either into the Volume II Supplement or into the New Cans Database. Not that it'll factor into anyone's thinking, but Chief Oshkosh Red Lager was the BCCA 1992 Can Of The Year.

I think it's ridiculous to sort cans by their metal construction or material, let alone what kind of opening mechanism is used.

I'm tempted to go through the Volume II Supplement and see just how many cans are both Pull and Sta-Tabs, how many are only stay tabs and possibly how many are aluminum. That's a project for another day...

I stand by my contention that all the content from the ABC 1975-1988 book belongs in the Volume II Supplement and not in the New Cans Database.

Humble as always, this is just my opinion...

(MI-Cans)

[idigrust]

Slightly, but not totally off topic, both the Oshkosh and Oskar Blues cans made the 85 Years of Canned Beer Video.

FULL VIDEO:

[MI-Cans]

@idigrust
Thanks, Dan. Not off-topic at all!

(MI-Cans)

[jimw630]

Just for clarity, I'm new to adding to the New Cans Database, and the Sta-Tab determination was a guideline I was given as to what to include and what not to include. Age of the can has not been a determinant, with the idea of better to include so it is recognized somewhere at least. As a newbie, I'm sure their intentions with my instructions are to maintain the database integrity until I am more comfortable on what to include.

Vol. 2 Supplement has the option, through check boxes, to show a can might have multiple opener types, such as zip, pull and sta for a single entry. So they do note opener type can be different from what is pictured.

[Dixie Dave]

I remember being told at Omaha by the guy(s) responsible for photographing the cans (they had a table set up with a box they put the cans in for photographing near the door to the trade floor) that they were expanding the scope of the Volume II Supplement. I could swear I was told they were expanding it to cover the ABC book era, with everything after that going to volume 3, but I am not absolutely certain of that.

Among the cans I submitted was a really unique and puzzling Fischer's Light can. The can said "Royal Brewing Co. New Orleans, LA" on the side, but it was extruded steel. I don't know of Dixie EVER using extruded steel cans. It was also a sta-tab- which is why I'm bringing it up here.

[MI-Cans]

@Dixie Dave
Thanks for the input. What you recall makes perfect sense to me!

Dixie Dave » October 20th, 2020, 10:00 am
I remember being told at Omaha by the guy(s) responsible for photographing the cans (they had a table set up with a box they put the cans in for photographing near the door to the trade floor) that they were expanding the scope of the Volume II Supplement. I could swear I was told they were expanding it to cover the ABC book era, with everything after that going to volume 3, but I am not absolutely certain of that.

@jimw630
If understand you correctly, you're taking every Sta-Tab can from the ABC Book and putting it into the New Cans Database? I just acquired a Lodi Malt Liquor can that according to the ABC book, came out in 1986. It won't be in the Volume II Supplement so I'll have to search the New Cans Database (at one time referred to as Volume III) for my can. So somewhere in the 33,383 (so far) cans, I'll have to search for it. Total lunacy!

I am losing all respect for the Supplements at this point.

Why not just absorb the entire Volume I and II along with the ABC book and the Foreign database into the New Cans Database, already. Or let's just take all the aluminum cans from Volume I and Volume II and put them into the NCDB regardless of lids.

There are members of the Supplement group that visit this site. I'd appreciate any one of them to chime in, tell me I'm full of it and explain the beauty of their thinking and plan cause right now, I equate it with a box of rocks!

Guess what...Just MY opinion.

(MI-Cans)

[Longhorn Mike]

Among the cans I submitted was a really unique and puzzling Fischer's Light can. The can said "Royal Brewing Co. New Orleans, LA" on the side, but it was extruded steel. I don't know of Dixie EVER using extruded steel cans. It was also a sta-tab- which is why I'm bringing it up here.

I have this can too. It was made by Ball and has a Government Warning. This is the only extruded steel can I have from Dixie.

- Mike

[MI-Cans]

@Dixie Dave
@Longhorn Mike
Had to look up the can you spoke of. It's in Volume II on page 64, can #31-8. In the ABC Book it's on page 21, can #10 from 1985. Interesting!

(MI-Cans)

Click to enlarge.

[Ted Wolfe]

Dave
Fischer's Old German was also put out an Extruded steel can, but much earlier than your Fischer Light because it was manufactured by Crown and was pre-warning.

[jimw630]

@jimw630
If understand you correctly, you're taking every Sta-Tab can from the ABC Book and putting it into the New Cans Database? I just acquired a Lodi Malt Liquor can that according to the ABC book, came out in 1986. It won't be in the Volume II Supplement so I'll have to search the New Cans Database (at one time referred to as Volume III) for my can. So somewhere in the 33,383 (so far) cans, I'll have to search for it. Total lunacy!

How is it different from searching the other two volumes? Searching the New Cans Database isn't much different. Click the search button and type in the name under Brand (no, Lodi is not in there yet) Similar to the others:

.

[MI-Cans]

@jimw630

How is it different from searching the other two volumes? Searching the New Cans Database isn't much different. Click the search button and type in the name under Brand (no, Lodi is not in there yet) Similar to the others:

NOT!

Do you really wanna go there? Ok. In English...

If I want to look up a Flat Top can, I pull out Volume I or I look up the Volume I Supplement to search for a Flat Top.

If I want to look up a Zip or Pull Tab can, I pull out Volume II or I look up the Volume II Supplement to search for a Zip or Pull Tab can. On the off-chance that I could not find the can there, then I would pull out The American Beer Cans 1975-1988 Book to look for it there. If it's still not there then I make the assumption that the Supplement team hasn't added it yet.

Am I going too fast?

The normal thinking would be that between these three books the entirety of all cans released between 1935 and 1988 should be or eventually will be documented for the Membership of this Hobby.

I for one, have no interest in cans released after 1990-91. I consider all those to constitute the New Cans Database. I should not be looking for cans from the mid 70's through the late 80's in the New Cans Database. It's a perfect database for those interested in that genre of cans. Yes, there are Pull Tabs & Sta-Tabs in that genre but they shouldn't be the ones from the mid 70's through the late 80's.

Now I've used the New Cans Database to look up answers to some posts on this site. I find it to be a pain in the butt! It's graphically huge. I have to reduce it to 40% just to fit all the columns on the page. There's no numbering or referencing that I can understand. How would I identify a can in my personal database. There are no page numbers. I was trained to be familiar with the first two Volumes. I got pretty good at it. They give us a New Cans Database that's completely different. In addition, they give us a Foreign database that even more different.

I understand that you're just following orders/instructions. I don't blame you at all. I blame the leadership for making stupid decisions and passing that stupidity onto the Membership. As a dues paying member, I have the right to voice my opinion when actions by the leadership affect my enjoyment of the Hobby.

My Opinion...

(MI-Cans)

[Longhorn Mike]

@Dixie Dave @MI-Cans @Ted Wolfe

Cool! I didn't know of the extruded Fischer's Light existed. I believe Dixie Dave and myself were referring to it's companion can, Fischer's Old German Style Beer. See the can on the right in the photos below. Now I need to find that Fischer's Light!

Ted, I believe the extruded Fischer's without the Government Warning that you are referring to is the can on the left in the photos below. This can was made by Fischer's Brewing which is actually a name that Falstaff used. The Falstaff brewery in New Orleans put a number of different brands in extruded steel in the last few years before the brewery was closed in 1978. That would explain the the lack of a UPC code, no government warning and 70's top. Dixie took over production of the brand after Falstaff's Galveston brewery was closed in 1981. All Fischer's made by Dixie list the Royal Brewing Company name.

Don't be fooled by the cans having the same zip code. Dixie was on Tulane Avenue and Falstaff was one block over on Gravier Street. Not only were they in the same zip code, you could almost throw a rock from the front door of one and hit the other.

- Mike

[MI-Cans]

Please allow me a moment to possibly clarify my position on the movement of ABC Book cans to the NCDB.

I went through the entire 58 pages of the ABC Book. There are 2,238 cans shown. Just going through the 12oz entries, I recognized that 330 were not in Volume II. Now remember, I glossed over the major brands because I couldn't make out finite differences because the images are so small. So even if I round it up to 400, that's somewhere around 1,800 that are possibly already be in VOLUME II. (I'm not talking any accurate numbers here other than my 330.)

The title on Volume II cover sleeve states: THE STANDARD REFERENCE OF TAB TOP BEER CANS. It does not make any distinction between Zip Tabs, Pull Tabs or Sta Tabs. It just says TAB TOPS! All tabs can be found in the book. All tabs are explained and detailed in the beginning before the can images begin. If so much of the ABC Book is already in Volume II, why would anyone in their right mind, move the remaining 330+ cans into a different database? It just baffles me.

If I had any influence in the matter, I would have all ABC Book cans removed from the New Cans Database and placed into the Volume II book where they belong.

I apologize if my posts in this thread offended anyone.

I'm sorry, it's just a common sense thing for me.

(MI-Cans)

[Dixie Dave]

Dave
Fischer's Old German was also put out an Extruded steel can, but much earlier than your Fischer Light because it was manufactured by Crown and was pre-warning.

@Ted Wolfe

I know exactly which can you are referring to. That can was produced by Falstaff when they had the contract to brew Fischer's. The brewery is identified as "Fischer Brewing Company New Orleans, LA". V2 064 30 0. It' s in the original Vol 2.

And the two light cans are different. One says 'recyclable aluminum" at the bottom. They appear side-by-side in the V2 supplement. 2 064 31 7-8. Does anyone have one of these aluminum Fischer's Light to trade or sell? I need it! In fact, I need any Fischer's Light from New Orleans besides the extruded steel can. PM me, please, if you want to work a deal for one. Stupid me, I had a bunch of those Lights at one point, and traded them all off without being sure to save one. I thought I did, but it turned out to be a Florida can.

@Longhorn Mike
I am really curious if there is a regular Fischer's that matches the Light I previously described. Extruded steel by Royal. Government mandates, UPC. Do you have a clue when this can was released? I'm thinking late 80's, early 90's. Good to know you have one of these Fischer's Light also, that means it's not unique. Probably sold in Louisiana and Texas at least.

Side note, I was working at Winn-Dixie at the time this can would have appeared, but the only Fischer's beer or light cans I remember were all aluminum.

[jinsequa]

Something else to put in your data base calculations.......Oregon’s “Bottle Bill” placed soft tops, 2 hole punch tops and EZ Stay tabs on all cans in Oregon far before other states switched to those type of eco-top lids. I have literally 100’s of unlisted Oregon sold cans that are listed as pull tabs in vol II but not stay tabs even though released at the exact same time.
Eric