How many of the rarest cans are only known in off grade condition?

#1

Was just curious if there is a list somewhere of the rarest can labels that are only known in off-grade condition...

#2

Triangle Deluxe - St Louis

#3

Autocrat, White Hillmans O/I, Manhattan Bock, Ortliebs Bock Ale J spout, just to name a few.

#4

Good question.

Phillipsburg Old German J

Krueger Beer 16 oz. HP, USBC 231-22

#5

Zest?

#6

Hohenadel Bock
Silver Dime
Fox Deluxe (first one)
Goldenrod Ale
Lion Bock
New England Beer
Esslinger's Bock (quart flat)

#7

Let's get some photos of these cans!

#8

Golden Armor

Dan B

#9

recently found Manhattan ale 4 panel?
Neil

#10

Imperial cone

#11

This would be a great comprehensive list if we can get it done. Some great labels that have never been seen in original condition.

#12

Plusonegolfer wrote: ↑Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:24 am This would be a great comprehensive list if we can get it done. Some great labels that have never been seen in original condition.

Agreed, but you should set the variation criteria first. How much minutia are you looking for?

#13

Not looking for minor variations just major labels. OI versus non- OI is fine with me, minor stuff not so much...

#14

Plusonegolfer wrote: ↑Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:13 am Not looking for minor variations just major labels. OI versus non- OI is fine with me, minor stuff not so much...

That's just it. You need to define it.

I minor variation to you, may not be a minor variation to others.

#15

Marc are you sure about the Golden rod Ale? asking really- but I thought Gene DiC or Harvey L. had on grade unrolled blanks of both ale and beer of this design, not the blue and gold. I could be wrong but feel pretty sure they exist. Maybe not 1+ but better than the Class/USBC can....

Should Crystal Rock 52-39 be on this list?

#16

1) Agree about the variation definition....it's thorny. For example, above the white Hillmans OI was mentioned, but there are two different variations, both offgrade and R10. Several WF OIs not known ongrade (sicks select lager, harvard beer etc)....are they minor variations?
2) From the OI world, have both 4crowns been found ongrade? What about the Imperial....lots of examples off grade.
3) Finally, what's "on grade". There are some things like the Zest that are close, but not perfect.

summary from above:

Triangle Deluxe - St Louis
Autocrat
White Hillmans O/I
Manhattan Bock
Ortliebs Bock Ale J spout
Phillipsburg Old German J
Krueger Beer 16 oz. HP, USBC 231-22
Zest?
Hohenadel Bock
Silver Dime
Fox Deluxe (first one)
Lion Bock
New England Beer
Esslinger's Bock (quart flat)
Golden Armor
Manhattan ale 4 panel
Imperial cone
Should Crystal Rock 52-39
Imperial OI

#17

Rand wrote: ↑Sat Dec 21, 2019 3:27 pm 1) Agree about the variation definition....it's thorny. For example, above the white Hillmans OI was mentioned, but there are two different variations, both offgrade and R10. Several WF OIs not known ongrade (sicks select lager, harvard beer etc)....are they minor variations?
2) From the OI world, have both 4crowns been found ongrade? What about the Imperial....lots of examples off grade.
3) Finally, what's "on grade". There are some things like the Zest that are close, but not perfect.

summary from above:

Triangle Deluxe - St Louis
Autocrat
White Hillmans O/I
Manhattan Bock
Ortliebs Bock Ale J spout
Phillipsburg Old German J
Krueger Beer 16 oz. HP, USBC 231-22
Zest?
Hohenadel Bock
Silver Dime
Fox Deluxe (first one)
Lion Bock
New England Beer
Esslinger's Bock (quart flat)
Golden Armor
Manhattan ale 4 panel
Imperial cone
Should Crystal Rock 52-39
Imperial OI

You can scratch off gold Crystal Rock off that list. There is at least 2 indoor known.

#18

One man's offgrade is another's gem...

Breidt's 1/2 and 1/2 quart
Trent Ale quart
Cremo Ale 'appetizing and refreshing' quart
Dawon's Ale red lettering quart
Ebling's White Head Ale quart
Indian Queen Ale quart
Liebmann's XXX quart
Tru Blu Ale quart

#19

Scratch New England beer off the list- Keith's indoor can has gear marks but looks plenty fine to me. Hohenadel Bock is probably in the same group- just a few little spots but not offgrade. Unless it fell off a shelf into a wood chipper. I had that Krueger Beer pint at one time and it looked pretty good to me... I guess I'm wondering where the cut-off is for a can to be offgrade.

Not many crowntainers in this list... Cremo woodgrain?

#20

Roll up of above comments:

Triangle Deluxe - St Louis
Autocrat
Hillmans O/I (white)
Manhattan Bock
Ortliebs Bock Ale J spout
Phillipsburg Old German J
(disputed Krueger Beer 16 oz. HP, USBC 231-22)
Zest?
Silver Dime
Fox Deluxe (first one)
Lion Bock
Esslinger's Bock (quart flat)
Golden Armor
Manhattan ale 4 panel
Imperial cone
Imperial OI
Breidt's 1/2 and 1/2 quart
Trent Ale quart
Cremo Ale 'appetizing and refreshing' quart
Dawon's Ale red lettering quart
Ebling's White Head Ale quart
Indian Queen Ale quart
Liebmann's XXX quart
Tru Blu Ale quart
Cremo woodgrain crowntainer

#21

@Rand

Let me know when you're done changing the list! I'm trying to put the pics together.

(MI-Cans)

#22

MI-Cans wrote: ↑Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:30 pm @Rand

Let me know when you're done changing the list! I'm trying to put the pics together.

(MI-Cans)

I'm not trying to change the list....just recording all the chatter into one post. That has been a lingering problem on this forum over the years....people start an interesting thread, and it goes on for 10 or 15 pages, but it ends up being essentially of no use as a reference document because it's not summarized in a way folks can ever use. I would wait for the chatter to settle.....and then do the work. If it looks stable, I'll move it to the reference section.

Rand :-)

#23

Dawson red letter quart is known on grade. Here's a link: https://www.steelcanvas.com/galleries/dawsons-master-ale-3/

#24

MI-Cans wrote: ↑Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:30 pm @Rand

Let me know when you're done changing the list! I'm trying to put the pics together.

(MI-Cans)

Thanks MI_cans. We can never have too many pictures of beer cans here.

Ongrade to me is 1- even 2+ if the face is pretty clean, that Hohenadel Bock in Marc's avatar looks fine to me.

#25

@Rand
Sorry. Meant to say updating.

Agree. Let it settle and then I can cobble something together.

(MI-Cans)

#26

Is there a Liebmann's XXX 12 oz. flat top known on-grade?

#27

As far as grading, my understanding has always been that anything 1- or worse is off-grade.

#28

My understanding has always been that "ongrade" meant "1/1+ or better", but I'd be OK with grade 1 as a cutoff for a list like this. The Hohenadel Bock is grade 2 at best, and the New England Beer isn't much better. I've owned the Imperial OI in higher grade than the Hohenadel Bock.

I'd knock the Krueger pint off the list as a minor variation. I used to own the only known example. It's a cool variation for sure, but it's not immediately apparent that it's different from ten feet as is the case with the two Hillman's cans. I'd advocate putting the first THREE Hillman's on the list, despite the fact that the third one looks like the common one. It's a pre-war can by a different brewery.

More J-Spouts for the list: Bushkill, Cooper's, Honer's and Hohenadel Indian Queen Ale. I'd further argue that the Frederick's and Gretz belong on the list, as I haven't seen either above grade 1-.

The Maier stein girl cone comes to mind also.

Marc

#29

dwaugh wrote: ↑Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:39 pm Dawson red letter quart is known on grade. Here's a link: https://www.steelcanvas.com/galleries/dawsons-master-ale-3/

Triangle Deluxe - St Louis
Autocrat
Hillmans O/I (white)
Manhattan Bock
Ortliebs Bock Ale J spout
Phillipsburg Old German J
(disputed Krueger Beer 16 oz. HP, USBC 231-22)
Zest?
Silver Dime
Fox Deluxe (first one)
Lion Bock
Esslinger's Bock (quart flat)
Golden Armor
Manhattan ale 4 panel
Imperial cone
Imperial OI
Breidt's 1/2 and 1/2 quart
Trent Ale quart
Cremo Ale 'appetizing and refreshing' quart
Ebling's White Head Ale quart
Indian Queen Ale quart
Liebmann's XXX quart
Tru Blu Ale quart
Cremo woodgrain crowntainer

#30

mtracy64 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 21, 2019 8:34 pm My understanding has always been that "ongrade" meant "1/1+ or better", but I'd be OK with grade 1 as a cutoff for a list like this. The Hohenadel Bock is grade 2 at best, and the New England Beer isn't much better. I've owned the Imperial OI in higher grade than the Hohenadel Bock.

I'd knock the Krueger pint off the list as a minor variation. I used to own the only known example. It's a cool variation for sure, but it's not immediately apparent that it's different from ten feet as is the case with the two Hillman's cans. I'd advocate putting the first THREE Hillman's on the list, despite the fact that the third one looks like the common one. It's a pre-war can by a different brewery.

More J-Spouts for the list: Bushkill, Cooper's, Honer's and Hohenadel Indian Queen Ale. I'd further argue that the Frederick's and Gretz belong on the list, as I haven't seen either above grade 1-.

The Maier stein girl cone comes to mind also.

Marc

(didn't add the 3rd hillman....minor variation?)

Triangle Deluxe - St Louis
Autocrat
Hillmans O/I (white) (both?)
Manhattan Bock
Ortliebs Bock Ale J spout
Phillipsburg Old German J
Zest?
Silver Dime
Fox Deluxe (first one)
Lion Bock
Esslinger's Bock (quart flat)
Golden Armor
Manhattan ale 4 panel
Imperial cone
Imperial OI
Breidt's 1/2 and 1/2 quart
Trent Ale quart
Cremo Ale 'appetizing and refreshing' quart
Ebling's White Head Ale quart
Indian Queen Ale quart
Liebmann's XXX quart
Tru Blu Ale quart
Cremo woodgrain crowntainer
Hohenadel Bock
New England Beer
Bushkil J spout
Cooper's J spout
Honer's J spout
Hohenadel Indian Queen Ale J spout
Frederick's J spout
Gretz J spout
Maier stein girl cone

How many of the rarest cans are only known in off grade condition?

How many of the rarest cans are only known in off grade condition?

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Re: How many of the rarest cans are only known in off grade condition?

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Re: How many of the rarest cans are only known in off grade condition?

Re: How many of the rarest cans are only known in off grade condition?

Re: How many of the rarest cans are only known in off grade condition?

Re: How many of the rarest cans are only known in off grade condition?

Re: How many of the rarest cans are only known in off grade condition?

Re: How many of the rarest cans are only known in off grade condition?

Re: How many of the rarest cans are only known in off grade condition?

Re: How many of the rarest cans are only known in off grade condition?

Re: How many of the rarest cans are only known in off grade condition?

Re: How many of the rarest cans are only known in off grade condition?

Re: How many of the rarest cans are only known in off grade condition?

Re: How many of the rarest cans are only known in off grade condition?

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Re: How many of the rarest cans are only known in off grade condition?

Re: How many of the rarest cans are only known in off grade condition?

Re: How many of the rarest cans are only known in off grade condition?

Re: How many of the rarest cans are only known in off grade condition?

Re: How many of the rarest cans are only known in off grade condition?

Re: How many of the rarest cans are only known in off grade condition?

Re: How many of the rarest cans are only known in off grade condition?

Re: How many of the rarest cans are only known in off grade condition?

Re: How many of the rarest cans are only known in off grade condition?

Re: How many of the rarest cans are only known in off grade condition?

Re: How many of the rarest cans are only known in off grade condition?