Puerto Rico poll

[Mark (expired)]

The recent posts about 10oz can composite intrigued me as the status of Puerto Rico, and a few other US territories, comes up. Thought I see what fellow Rusty Bunchers thought.

[mtracy64]

I voted no, but the Cerveza India by Jacob Hornung is an exception because of where it was brewed and packaged.

Marc

[Longhorn Mike]

When I collected all US cans, I collected cans made in Puerto Rico because Puerto Rico is part of the United States. I also kept the San Miguel can that was from Guam for the same reason.

For those of you who feel otherwise, what do yo think of breweriana (namely labels but can be other stuff) from before statehood from our more recent states like Hawaii, Alaska, New Mexico and Oklahoma?

- Mike

[MI-Cans]

I looked up what @mtracy64 said. The original was apparently brewed and canned in Philadelphia and exported to Puerto Rico. I guess you'd have to ask the Supplement gurus why they included the made in Puerto Rico versions.

(MI-Cans)

Click to enlarge.

[Uncle Jackson]

As we are working on the USBC II Supplement, we have been discussing this and have come to no conclusion. It is a Tastes Great/Less Filling argument.

I believe the cans from PR in USBC I set a precedent. As we are fully involved with updating the Supplement, there is no serious passion one way are the other. I am in favor of including the cans. One of my favorite cans is the Home Run.

Do any of you have any great passion or arguments on this? If so, please let us know.

Thanx.

[Mark (expired)]

Given my collection focus I enjoy considering the distinctions. There are a lot of places across the globe that have country-like characteristics while also having aspects that indicate they are part of a larger country.
China: Hong Kong, Tibet, ...
Denmark: Faroe Islands, Greenland
France: French Polynesia (aka Tahiti), New Caledonia, French Guiana, …
Norway: Svalbard
U.K.: the Bailiwick of Jersey & the Bailiwick of Guernsey (they have never been a part of the E.U.), British Virgin Islands, ...

And there are countries that seem to have some non-country like characteristics:
Cook Islands
Isle of Mann
Niue

And of course none of these will be decided here. I am just curious, as Puerto Rico for instance fields its own Olympic Team (it sent its team of 3 boxers to compete in the 1980 Moscow Olympics for instance when the US boycotted it). On the other hand, the most recent poll (2012) on the status had 54% wanting to change their current status, and then of those who indicated what status they preferred rather than the current "Unincorporated and Organized Territory, had something like only 72k vote for independence (5.5%) and 800k vote that they wanted to become the 51st sate. What surprised me most is if Puerto Rico became the 51st state, its population would make it the 30th most populous state (3.2m would place it above Utah, Iowa, Nevada, Arkansas, …).

Up until 1952, Puerto Rico was a colony of the US, anyone know when the India by Hornung was canned? Also USBC V.1 (p.159 #10) has the DeLUXE by Corona cone top - any ideas of when it being canned?

[Longhorn Mike]

Here is a photo of the Puerto Rico capitol building in San Juan. The flag flying on the left tells you everything you need to know. Places that aren't part of the United States DO NOT fly that flag out in front of their capitol building.

- Mike

[jinsequa]

Puerto Rican’s are US citizens.
Enough said?

Eric Palmer

[pinnacle-project]

Whether a person displays cans from U.S. territories with their domestic or foreign cans is a matter of personal preference. If we polled people who live in those territories, even they would not agree so it is unlikely a unanimous opinion will be reached here either.

[golf_lover44]

Here's a 10 ounce Schlitz Light that says Puerto Rico on it. However it has a dot over Memphis on the cities listed at the bottom of the can:

The same thing on a 10 ounce Old Milwaukee:

[oldindiapaleale]

Were not all the cans made on the mainland U.S.A. and shipped to Puerto Rico? American, Continental, Crown, Ball, others.

[hemmings]

What a cool topic to bring up today.. And I sure don't mean to get bogged down on the various factions about Columbus Day... just noting the serendipity if it was not intentional. Great point about the flak Mike..... Until I started writing up a number of Spanish American War stereoviews I put up on Ebay last night I probably would have said no in the poll But.... we took it away from Spain. I seriously doubt anyone would say cans from there are Spanish at this point. And, PR is a USA protectorate, they are citizens of the USA and probably most importantly (imo) PR is Not an independent country.

I admit my own thinking has changed over the last week because of some new archaeological work there and me messing with the 1898 stuff... I guess I would ask... If you think these are not American cans... What country are they from then?

Now if we could just get rid of Texas... kidding.....Andy

[mtracy64]

Up until 1952, Puerto Rico was a colony of the US, anyone know when the India by Hornung was canned? Also USBC V.1 (p.159 #10) has the DeLUXE by Corona cone top - any ideas of when it being canned?

The Cerveza India by Hornung is post-war . . . and Withdrawn Free.

Marc

[foreigncanman]

The citizens in Puerto Rico vote in the US presidential elections.

[Mark (expired)]

As far as I know, Puerto Ricans who currently reside in Puerto Rico can "vote", but the votes do not actually count as they do not have a voting representative in Congress and also do not have "electors" in the Electoral College. Not that Wikipedia is the official arbitrator of all things truth:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_v ... uerto_Rico

PLEASE, this is not meant to be a debate on statehood and/or citizens rights... rather just curious how fellow collectors choose to consider Puerto Rican cans. Personally I have them with my cans from Saipan, USVI, the Canal Zone, and Guam.

Hadn't thought about the Columbus Day alignment … but now humming: in 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue...

AND thanks Marc for the info on the Hornung India - that intrigues me as it likely means that the can dates to the time when Puerto Rico was a Colony... a status distinction that counts in my collection... now the much harder part - finding one, that is available, at a price or trade I can afford...

[Longhorn Mike]

The greatest part about collecting is that we are able to collect what we like and what we want. If you choose to collect Puerto Rico or not, is entirely up to you.

With that said, the territories and possessions of the United States is not a gray area. A possession either is or it isn't. Don't be fooled by politically correct terms or the disuse of the term "colony." Don't be confused because there may be some pro independence groups. Also, it is important to remember that the term "Commonwealth" used for a couple of American possessions is not the same as the term "Commonwealth" used for many former British possessions. They are entirely different. Remember, even some US states are Commonwealths, but that does not make them more "independent" than others.

The territories and possessions of the United States are as follows. Some have large populations, many are uninhabited or military only. All of the people in these possessions are either US citizens or in a couple of cases, US Nationals. Puerto Rico, United States Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, Northern Mariana Islands, Midway Islands, Johnston Atoll, Wake Island, Howland Island, Kingman Reef, Navassa Island, Jarvis Island, Baker Island, Palmyra Atoll, Bajo Nuevo Bank and Sarranilla Bank.

The Philippines was a former possession that was given independence after WWII. Other former possessions include the US Canal Zone, the Marshall Islands, Micronesia and Palau.

- Mike

[mtracy64]

AND thanks Marc for the info on the Hornung India - that intrigues me as it likely means that the can dates to the time when Puerto Rico was a Colony... a status distinction that counts in my collection... now the much harder part - finding one, that is available, at a price or trade I can afford...

Mark,

Yes, the can is extremely rare. I saw an ongrade example in a collection years ago, and I've never heard of another.

Marc

[hemmings]

Well said Longhorn Mike. Collecting whatever ya want for fun. Thought it was pretty cool someone is collecting signed Old Froth cans...

Have any of the first three India cans ever turned up unrolled? Would be a really nice can to see lain out..

[beerhunter14]

I don't want to hijack the thread or anything. I just wanted to point out. For those who are into History Bluff. I have a book called " The Story of the Philippines- Our New Possessions. The 1st edition published in 1898. It even had a picture of young Teddy Roosevelt (before he was president). Discuss about Puerto Rico and other places such as Hawaii, Cuba, etc. I haven't read the book but yes it for sale.
Other note: If you remember 2 or 3 years ago, Puerto Rico got hit hard by hurricane, No power for several month or more. I think they went bankrupt too? I 'm not sure on this one. Good Luck finding beer cans in Puerto Rico nowadays, that include some old one.
Here a photo of the book I'm talking about.

[foreigncanman]

Here is one of the Indias and the Deluxe cone. Tom

[Mark (expired)]

a small discovery … I have two of the India flats, one looks lidded but has a beaded seam which means it likely was not rolled. Interesting to the small detail aficionados among us - the one that I have that "matches" Tom's is a CCC48 with the canning symbol to the left of the 5 weld seam, Tom's 3 tooth seamed can looks like it has CCC 16 and to the right of the seam. Always learning something on this website!

BTW Tom, the Deluxe cone, any idea on when it may have been made?

[Longhorn Mike]

The DeLuxe cone is awesome!

- Mike

[foreigncanman]

a small discovery … I have two of the India flats, one looks lidded but has a beaded seam which means it likely was not rolled. Interesting to the small detail aficionados among us - the one that I have that "matches" Tom's is a CCC48 with the canning symbol to the left of the 5 weld seam, Tom's 3 tooth seamed can looks like it has CCC 16 and to the right of the seam. Always learning something on this website!

India PED front.jpg
India PED side.jpg

India Marca front.jpg
India Marca seam.jpg

BTW Tom, the Deluxe cone, any idea on when it may have been made?

Not sure but I will soon be taking new pictures of the cone top cans. Tom

[keithker]

Thompson Ward (a non-RBer I met at the ALBQ CANvention) asked me to post these for him. His dad was in the Army Reserve and one of the guys in his unit was from Puerto Rico and he sent these cans to me about 50 years ago.

[Mark (expired)]

Reina is a goodie... are you posting them to get info or to get offers?

[MI-Cans]

@keithker
Are all those 10oz'rs? Amazing cans. Fan Tabs with vanity lids! Were they all brewed in PR or imported? Two of the brands are already in the 10oz Composite. If not sure, do you have any contact info for the owner? Thanks.

(MI-Cans)

[keithker]

@MI-Cans Ed...I'll reach out to the original lead. He visits the forum but hasn't registered. He might be willing to provide some additional details.

[twcans]

Yes the 4 cans are all 10 oz and they were all brewed in Puerto Rico.
Thanks, Tom

[twcans]

Reina is a goodie... are you posting them to get info or to get offers?

I just posted them because of the Puerto Rico topic and have had them a long time.
I have never seen another Reina, what is the value of this can?
Thanks, Tom

[Mark (expired)]

Thanks to all who have clicked either yes or no on the poll. Hope more will add their voice - intriguing to see the percentage shift over time. Again, this is not a referendum for any particular decision. The fluctuation possibly reveals to a degree the reasoning for the ambiguity behind why Puerto Rican cans were included in the printed Volume 1 of the USBC, but not in Volume 2?

It may also bring up whether the two straight steel ring pull San Miguel cans that have "SAN MIGUEL BREWING CO. (GUAM). INC., GUAM" should be considered "U.S." cans in Volume II?

Beer Me! has this brewery opening in 1971 and closing in 1975. A brief search came across this/these key chain(s?) that show a building and confirm "NOVEMBER 27 1971" as "inaugural".

Recently a new brewery has opened and the PNC news article comments that the new brewery is "Located behind the historic San Miguel Brewery in Harmon, ..."
https://pncguam.com/guam-brewery-offici ... -business/
stirring the pot I suppose...