The sudden proliferation of Progress OIs...

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The sudden proliferation of Progress OIs...

#1

Post by MarkfromIndy » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:37 am

Is perplexing and stimulating enough without my just finding out there are two variations; Lilek 697 and 698.

Can someone enlighten me, who is not an OI Whisperer, and does not own the sacred Lilek scriptures, what the difference between them is?



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Re: The sudden proliferation of Progress OIs...

#2

Post by mtracy64 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:36 am

One man's opinion: The difference is wishful thinking, based on a desire for a matched pair to the color variation found on the Gold Medal OI.

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Re: The sudden proliferation of Progress OIs...

#3

Post by MarkfromIndy » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:18 am

So no clear difference in the OI side panels or boxed in brewery info? Interesting...

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Re: The sudden proliferation of Progress OIs...

#4

Post by mtracy64 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:42 pm

No, it's claimed to be a color variation only.

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Re: The sudden proliferation of Progress OIs...

#5

Post by Rockbob » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:01 am

I've seen both side by side in person. There is a distinct difference.
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Re: The sudden proliferation of Progress OIs...

#6

Post by Rand » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:00 pm

Hate to butt in with unwelcome whispering.....but the previous comments are correct.....only claimed difference is the red vs orange color. Looked at a lot of them, but never saw the "red" variation. Had the two Gold Medal variations side by side on my shelves, and was convinced of those differences. Have no independent observation or data on the Progress color difference.
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Re: The sudden proliferation of Progress OIs...

#7

Post by mountainrust » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:44 pm

Where is this proliferation taking place?

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Re: The sudden proliferation of Progress OIs...

#8

Post by mtracy64 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:51 pm

I was going to I've only seen red ones, but I've seen several shades of pink too. It's not a deep red like the darker Gold medal, though. It is weird to see three on eBay at the same time.

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Re: The sudden proliferation of Progress OIs...

#9

Post by OctoberAle » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:48 pm

The color difference on the Progress OIs has never seemed pronounced enough to count, but I've heard that there is a different canning code on the two cans. I've never confirmed that. Some seem to have a clearer red with a bright white while some have a more orange-red with a more muted white. The color difference seems to fall within the range of chance paint variances to me.

Anyway, here's the code on my can. I would call it a more orange-red with the white being slightly grayed. If someone has what they consider to be the cherry red example with the bright white I would be interested in seeing the canning code.

Also, I don't know about any proliferation of Progress cans. Am I missing something? :smt001
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Re: The sudden proliferation of Progress OIs...

#10

Post by OctoberAle » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:55 pm

OK,nevermind, I found the dumpers on ebay, proliferation explained. There are dumpers out there. It's a little unusual to see 3 at once, but I've seen a number of them over the years.

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Re: The sudden proliferation of Progress OIs...

#11

Post by mtracy64 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:23 pm

See, this is where it gets weird. The orange one is supposed to be by far the scarcer of the two. My eyes have never seen an orange one, and for that matter, I've never seen an orange Gold Medal either. I've seen the Gold Medal in two very different shades of red, much more different than they appear in the book.

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Re: The sudden proliferation of Progress OIs...

#12

Post by Joe Older » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:28 pm

Mr. OctoberAle, my Progress OI has the same canning code as yours. Mine is the actual 698 can from Lilek's book, which he calls the red variation. However, I would describe it like you did your can, more of an orange red with slightly grayed white (which Kevin called orange and is Lilek 697). I cannot make out the canning code on the Lilek 697 can from the picture in the book. It would be interesting to see if there is a canning code difference between the two.
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Re: The sudden proliferation of Progress OIs...

#13

Post by MarkfromIndy » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:32 pm

"Proliferation" because I hit several shows around Indy over the course of a year with $300 earmarked for a decent dumper and searched Ebay and put the word out with dealers and friends and not a single one surfaced. Not one. Finally bought one a few months back and now four have hit Ebay in the last two weeks.

There is definitely a difference in the Gold Medal OI's colors because I've had them both side by side and you can't miss it. The "Orange-Red" Progress listed on Ebay sure looks different in the pics, but Ebay pics are surely misleading and I trust folks who might know better from experience like Marc and Rand. Living in Indy for most of my 25 years collecting on and off, I have seen all of three Progress OI's in person and that is counting the one on my shelf right now. So it is a shock to have three on my Watch list at the same time....

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Re: The sudden proliferation of Progress OIs...

#14

Post by Leon » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:22 pm

Me & Tom Ronzi dumped almost a case of Progress's in HELL about 10 years ago. but only like 7 or 8 were worth taking home. Think I got 4 & Tom got 4. LEON.
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Re: The sudden proliferation of Progress OIs...

#15

Post by Leon » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:32 pm

Dumped this Progress in Davisburg Michigan way back in 1994. Still sits on my shelf. I found 5 or 6 Goebel O/Is next to it & wondered why I could only find one Progress, where's the other 5? LEON.
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Re: The sudden proliferation of Progress OIs...

#16

Post by mtracy64 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:04 pm

I dug five Progress OI's near Saginaw back around 1990. One was really nice, and others were all rough. I bought a 1/1- example at Jim McKinney's beer can store (for $225) a couple years later, so I gave my nice dumper to my digging partner, even though I was out alone when I found it. Best can I've ever dug, and I gave it away.

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Re: The sudden proliferation of Progress OIs...

#17

Post by Leon » Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:40 pm

Mine was the best can I ever dug & I gave it away to some new collector that came over my house drooling over it. But I got it back years later. LEON.
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Re: The sudden proliferation of Progress OIs...

#18

Post by MarkfromIndy » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:40 pm

Hopefully not derailing my own thread, but I just remembered something about the Gold Medals I had. Got them both from the same guy, a non-collector who dug about a batch of Gold Medals and Progresses out near his house in Brownsburg. They were definitely a strong color variation- much more difference than in the book- and came from the same one-day dumping expedition. So the color variation took place in the same time frame and same run of cans it would seem. (?)

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Re: The sudden proliferation of Progress OIs...

#19

Post by OctoberAle » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:57 pm

MarkfromIndy wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:40 pm
Hopefully not derailing my own thread, but I just remembered something about the Gold Medals I had. Got them both from the same guy, a non-collector who dug about a batch of Gold Medals and Progresses out near his house in Brownsburg. They were definitely a strong color variation- much more difference than in the book- and came from the same one-day dumping expedition. So the color variation took place in the same time frame and same run of cans it would seem. (?)
Brownsburg is an interesting place for them to turn up. There was also a massive find of Gold Medals up in the Boundary Waters back in the 80s I believe. I talked to one of the finders, Jankauskas from Chicagoland, and when I asked him how many were found he said 'hundreds'. All were in fair to poor shape overall but many had one good side. They were found in sandy conditions and had to be brought out by canoe. There seemed to be an even mix of the maroon and orange. I wound up with a mess of them, I think acquired from Barry Travis, and most of them had a lumpy white number painted on the bottom lid. If I remember right the find was split 3 ways, so at least a third of them were numbered in such manner. Anyway, if I have anything wrong you can ask Jankauskas about it.

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Re: The sudden proliferation of Progress OIs...

#20

Post by OctoberAle » Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:31 am

On the subject of Gold Medals now...here is a pic of a single can that came out of an attic in Indianapolis a few years back. It had been underneath attic insulation and was dirty. It cleaned up rather nicely to become the best example I've seen. :shock: It's now on my shelf until I'm dead, or I leave the hobby completely.

In the second pic the clean can is pictured with a cardboard 12 pack box. This box was found along with 3 cans back in the mid 2000s in Kentucky.
2 of those cans were in very good condition, the 3rd can had some issues. All 3 had Kentucky tax stamps on the lid.

The 3rd pic shows both Gold Medals that I briefly owned before selling the one on the right.

The 4th pic shows more clearly the Kentucky tax stamp lid on the one I sold.

The 5th pic is the Gold Medal in the current Morean Auction, also found in Kentucky in the same the box. It is one of the 2 very good ones from that find.

All cans pictured are the 'orange' label.

I'm guessing that the box is the rarest item here, as I've not seen another. :eek:
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Re: The sudden proliferation of Progress OIs...

#21

Post by Leon » Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:42 am

The last Gold Medal in 5th pic the label looks more red then Orange, or is it just the lighting or Camera or something else making it look more Red then it really is? LEON.
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ANOTHER SAYING: LIGHTS ARE ON BUT NOBODY'S HOME?

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Re: The sudden proliferation of Progress OIs...

#22

Post by OctoberAle » Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:52 am

Leon wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:42 am
The last Gold Medal in 5th pic the label looks more red then Orange, or is it just the lighting or Camera or something else making it look more Red then it really is? LEON.
It's just the lighting or camera. It's identical to the others. I photographed the two from the box find together back in 2007 or so and they were identical. I had one and Fred Johnson had one. It's too bad the USBC photos aren't better. It would have cleared up some confusion.

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Re: The sudden proliferation of Progress OIs...

#23

Post by MarkfromIndy » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:13 pm

Beyond thanks for posting the proliferation of Gold Medal pics, btw. I would imagine you have handled more ongrade ones than anyone else alive.

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