Separating my reply from the Wednesday Acq topic as @bantam10 had a good point! I didn’t realize it although there are no Pabst zips in the book without the “No Opener Needed” banner. Does anybody have a Pabst zip without the banner brewed in ‘any’ city? If anybody, I’d assume @oldmoneytexan has a few? I know @kamsquared is the RB resident Miller expert but do we have a Pabst expert?
Thanks,
Paul
Re: Pabst Zips Oddity
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:52 pm
by Leon
Here's what I think. Pabst purposely made flat tops into the mid 60's while at the same time they made zip pull tabs. These flats were cheaper & were made for bulk/large order customers (common) like military, transportation by boat, plane & train, hotels, ect, ect. I'm guessing some left over stock from that got used up as tabs. ™®LEON™®♠
Re: Pabst Zips Oddity
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:09 am
by kruegerbock
Leon,
I used to think that as well, particularly with respect to the cans from Hammonton and the seemingly infinite varieties of lid and bottom combinations available on some of their cans. I've been led to believe (and seen pictures showing this) that the zip and pull tab lids were shipped from the canning plants already on the cans, which were then filled upside down (Steven Sullivan would be a fan) at the brewery, with the bottom lid being applied after the can was filled.
Re: Pabst Zips Oddity
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:37 pm
by Leon
kruegerbock wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:09 am
Leon,
I used to think that as well, particularly with respect to the cans from Hammonton and the seemingly infinite varieties of lid and bottom combinations available on some of their cans. I've been led to believe (and seen pictures showing this) that the zip and pull tab lids were shipped from the canning plants already on the cans, which were then filled upside down (Steven Sullivan would be a fan) at the brewery, with the bottom lid being applied after the can was filled.
Yes, That is all correct. But the flats were lidded on bottom only & filled from the top. SO, Pabst would print 2 cans. With & without the no opener needed. The No Openers filled from the Bottom & already lidded on top & the flats filled from top & already lidded on bottom. I'm sure with any left over flats the Brewery would have no problem obtaining pull tab lids & lidding the tops themselves. Only other option would be to paint over unused sheets. €LEON.
P.S. What theory does everybody else have?
Re: Pabst Zips Oddity
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:57 am
by CrustyRusty
I'm no expert, but I would want to think that Pabst was just using up left over flat sheets with the first zip top lids until the sheets were used up...again, just a guess.
Re: Pabst Zips Oddity
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:25 am
by mrlager428
The close-up Can picture shows this Can is from the National Can Company and those look to be Third Generation Tops....Which Can Company made the Can with the "No Opener Needed" banner on it?
The above theories make sense especially if the Banner Can is from American or Continental Can Companys....Just My opinion
Re: Pabst Zips Oddity
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:09 am
by CrustyRusty
mrlager428 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:25 am
The close-up Can picture shows this Can is from the National Can Company and those look to be Third Generation Tops....Which Can Company made the Can with the "No Opener Needed" banner on it?
The above theories make sense especially if the Banner Can is from American or Continental Can Companys....Just My opinion
My PBR zip is American can co. made, "keglined" with the oval around it, book states it being used in the mid 60's.
Re: Pabst Zips Oddity
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:42 am
by CrustyRusty
I still feel that Pabst was merely using up remaining stock of sheet labels and lids (flats and zips) regardless of what can company/lid maker and or where they were filled, this label, usbc 1 can #112-2, makes me feel this is the case, I can't think of any other reason this label was sold as a flat.
Re: Pabst Zips Oddity
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:58 am
by oldmoneytexan
CrustyRusty wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:42 am
1112020.jpgI still feel that Pabst was merely using up remaining stock of sheet labels and lids (flats and zips) regardless of what can company/lid maker and or where they were filled, this label, usbc 1 can #112-2, makes me feel this is the case, I can't think of any other reason this label was sold as a flat.
I think every brewery did that. No way they disposed of the remaining cans when tab lids were delivered.
Re: Pabst Zips Oddity
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:59 am
by oldmoneytexan
@Pbama I don't have the Pabst without the NON. Very cool.
Re: Pabst Zips Oddity
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:47 am
by bantam10
They probably waited a year or two to reuse the old flats just so they can have the NON on the label for the first round of zips .
Re: Pabst Zips Oddity
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:23 am
by Pbama
mrlager428 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:25 am
The close-up Can picture shows this Can is from the National Can Company and those look to be Third Generation Tops....Which Can Company made the Can with the "No Opener Needed" banner on it?
The above theories make sense especially if the Banner Can is from American or Continental Can Companys....Just My opinion
CrustyRusty wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:42 am
1112020.jpgI still feel that Pabst was merely using up remaining stock of sheet labels and lids (flats and zips) regardless of what can company/lid maker and or where they were filled, this label, usbc 1 can #112-2, makes me feel this is the case, I can't think of any other reason this label was sold as a flat.
I think every brewery did that. No way they disposed of the remaining cans when tab lids were delivered.
I also collect vintage/antique Coleman lamps and lanterns, that company went out of it's way to use up as much of any remaining stock of parts as they could, resulting in some cases, lanterns or lamps that were a very short run and making them a highly prized by collectors, it's also an addicting hobby..lol
220-228-407-409.jpg (22.08 KiB) Viewed 3520 times
Re: Pabst Zips Oddity
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:27 pm
by Leon
CrustyRusty wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:57 am
I'm no expert, but I would want to think that Pabst was just using up left over flat sheets with the first zip top lids until the sheets were used up...again, just a guess.
I'd agree with that if these were the first zip top lids & the cans dated from around 1962 or 63, BUT, These are the later or last zip tops & the cans date from 1965. I know Pabst was still making this can in 65 as a flat. LEON.
Re: Pabst Zips Oddity
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:32 pm
by Leon
Here's a 1968 Military Pic of Soldier Drinking a Pabst Flat Top. LEON.
CrustyRusty wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:57 am
I'm no expert, but I would want to think that Pabst was just using up left over flat sheets with the first zip top lids until the sheets were used up...again, just a guess.
I'd agree with that if these were the first zip top lids & the cans dated from around 1962 or 63, BUT, These are the later or last zip tops & the cans date from 1965. I know Pabst was still making this can in 65 as a flat. LEON.
So do you believe that Pabst was just late to the show using zip tops?
Re: Pabst Zips Oddity
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:45 am
by Leon
NO, I'm sure Pabst made a first generation or earlier style zip but looking at my different Pabst zips I don't have one. Anybody else have a Pabst that has a totally flat top with no writing or smile beads? LEON.
P.S. I do know that Miller was slow to convert to the new zip top as my Ermal Fraze Article from 1963 states.
Re: Pabst Zips Oddity
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:23 pm
by Pbama
Not sure what you mean by “no writing or smile beads”?
Re: Pabst Zips Oddity
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:30 pm
by CrustyRusty
Pbama wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:23 pm
Not sure what you mean by “no writing or smile beads”?
Just after the first version lift tabs (plain top), the second version the words "lift tab & pull" were added and then the same wording with the bumps (smile beads) on either side of the opening on the third version.
Re: Pabst Zips Oddity
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:30 pm
by Leon
Pbama wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:23 pm
Not sure what you mean by “no writing or smile beads”?
Here's a Pic of 4 different Stroh's zip tops. In order of age. The first one has no writing on top & no smile beads. The 4th, last one does. I'm still missing the 5th variation. LEON.
Re: Pabst Zips Oddity
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:45 pm
by Leon
I had a pic of 6 or 7 different zip tabs tops on my computer but cant find it anymore. old pic. The Pic & zip top info can be found on Mark Benbows RUSTYCANS.COM Website. Link below. LEON.
CrustyRusty wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:57 am
I'm no expert, but I would want to think that Pabst was just using up left over flat sheets with the first zip top lids until the sheets were used up...again, just a guess.
I'd agree with that if these were the first zip top lids & the cans dated from around 1962 or 63, BUT, These are the later or last zip tops & the cans date from 1965. I know Pabst was still making this can in 65 as a flat. LEON.
Leon wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:32 pm
Here's a 1968 Military Pic of Soldier Drinking a Pabst Flat Top. LEON.
Maybe that's one of the reasons Pabst flats are so plentiful in 1/1+ and above condition. National brewer and made flats well into the 60's = new cans available closer to when beer can collecting became a thing.
Re: Pabst Zips Oddity
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:38 am
by GimmeGipps
Must have been done only at the Pabst Newark brewery? I have a Pabst NON 1st gen zip without the smile beads from Peoria. Also a Peoria Big Cat and Blatz NON from Peoria with and without smile beads. Havnt seen the Peoria flat design with a zip top. Anyone see these from any of the other Pabst plants?
Re: Pabst Zips Oddity
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:40 am
by GimmeGipps
Pabst might have had a contract with the Army that stated flat top cans? Newark did the fulfillment and shiping?
Re: Pabst Zips Oddity
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:36 pm
by Longopener
This 1968 Bob Hope movie "The Private Navy of Sgt. O'Farrell" is set in WWII and revolves around military personnel retrieving beer from a beached ship.
Instead of OD cans, the props are full, (then-current) late 60s Pabst flat tops.
Here are some scenes:
Go to :45 for some fun quotes.....then 2:15 of this clip:
kruegerbock wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:09 am
Leon,
I used to think that as well, particularly with respect to the cans from Hammonton and the seemingly infinite varieties of lid and bottom combinations available on some of their cans. I've been led to believe (and seen pictures showing this) that the zip and pull tab lids were shipped from the canning plants already on the cans, which were then filled upside down (Steven Sullivan would be a fan) at the brewery, with the bottom lid being applied after the can was filled.
Yes, That is all correct. But the flats were lidded on bottom only & filled from the top. SO, Pabst would print 2 cans. With & without the no opener needed. The No Openers filled from the Bottom & already lidded on top & the flats filled from top & already lidded on bottom. I'm sure with any left over flats the Brewery would have no problem obtaining pull tab lids & lidding the tops themselves. Only other option would be to paint over unused sheets. €LEON.
P.S. What theory does everybody else have?
I have a late flat (not a Pabst) with the tax stamp on the bottom. That would strongly suggest to me that it was shipped with the bottom missing, and filled from the bottom. MarkB
Re: Pabst Zips Oddity
Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:24 pm
by mythica
Here is a Pabst 1st generation zip tab from Milwaukee.
Re: Pabst Zips Oddity
Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:34 pm
by Pbama
mythica wrote: ↑Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:24 pm
Here is a Pabst 1st generation zip tab from Milwaukee.
Very nice!!!
Still looking to see if anybody has a zip without the NON label?
Re: Pabst Zips Oddity
Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:59 pm
by Leon
mythica wrote: ↑Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:24 pm
Here is a Pabst 1st generation zip tab from Milwaukee.
Nice, I like it. Now if it just had the tab straight instead of on a angle then I'm sure Chris T. Would of liked it. LOL LEON.
