Underwater cans

[ConeAddict]

Was doing some research on potential dumping spots around my area and something occurred to me after reading here about cans found in drained lakes. The Mississippi dam here was completed sometime in 1937 and looking at old maps the areas near me that were flooded were farms which I am sure had dumps or even just discarded cans from right before things were flooded. Unlike deep lakes there are lots of areas that have been underwater since but during low water periods only have 2-5 ft of water over them. Would cans stuck down in that muck be rusted/faded or is there potentially still good stuff in there? I remember as a kid someone telling me they pulled a dozen clean Heileman cones out of some underwater sandbar. Messy work for sure and not sure I would dive into that just curious whether some of you think there is still stuff down there.

[Diamond State Boy]

I'm no expert on this or any topic for that matter but I do recall this topic coming up over the years. Expect discoloration but many a quality can (rust wise) has been uncovered from muck. Seams suffer the worst due to lack of paint protection. The lack of oxygen in the mud slows rusting way down. pH would be another consideration of course.. I'm sure others can show examples.

[Rand]

Seen a number of cans discolored that reportedly came from the muck. Most notable is the Genny Leibo.....body of this can should be bright yellow.

[mtracy64]

Seams rot out in water due to a reaction between dissimilar metals, not lack of paint.

The Genesee should be orange . . . it's nicknamed 'the pumpkin can' in some circles.

Marc

[willssoda]

there is a lake near me that is man made and they actually flooded a whole town (Butler, TN). A few years after they flooded the town they apparently drained the lake and people were able to go in the town. I have a Coke button that my wife's uncle pulled from the mud. Only the part sticking above the mud was rusted. The rest was in great shape. May help answer your question. Pretty sure if oxygen can hit it then it will rust if the mud covers it it will be preserved.

[foreigncanman]

I hav e seen the pumpkin can ongrade looking brownish as well . Maybe not consistent with color ,

[Diamond State Boy]

Seams rot out in water due to a reaction between dissimilar metals, not lack of paint.

The Genesee should be orange . . . it's nicknamed 'the pumpkin can' in some circles.

Marc

Ah..Galvanic corrosion. Makes sense since the oxygen is cut off there has to be another factor to contribute to the rot..but would the same reaction occur if the can were painted equally all the way around?

[willssoda]

Here's a pic of the button. Rusted part was sticking out of the muck the rest was under. Not sure when the button was placed there. Town was flooded in 1949. Button was found in the mid 80's when the lake was drained.

[Leon]

I got a oddball looking Pfeiffer can I pulled out of a Dredge pile with Dan Bora by Dan's house. Can on Right, obviously. LEON.

[YooperAho]

Eh! yooperaho here.
I'm not to much into MUCKING.

You need to talk to the MASTER Steve Gola (RUSTY JONESIN)

[Rand]

I hav e seen the pumpkin can ongrade looking brownish as well . Maybe not consistent with color ,

added a picture of my shelfer for comparison

[jinsequa]

You get some weird effects from water cans....especially any red in the can. Some of the most notoriously unobtainable cans in the USBC books are water cans. (The Brown Derby by Pittsburgh with the dark brown label comes to mind.) I am guessing the red paint has iron in it that is affected by a combination of temperature, Ph, Oxygen content, how deep the can was (different wavelengths of light go to different depths) and mineral content of the water.
Here are some cans I suspect are water cans next to their normal colored brethren for comparison. I found it interesting that even aluminum water cans change color.
Eric

[Mike S]

The genny can is also clear coated which can affect the color slightly as well. if memory serves me right it was found by a diver in one of the finger lakes.

Mike s

[ConeAddict]

I think the Lake Dehli story is what got me thinking about this. But researching more I think I would actually need to locate some tavern or business that was actually operating in 1935-37 and would have had a deeper dump. Maps from 1931 already show a lot of the lots listed as "US government land" and I would think a lot of the farms were abandoned well before the dam was completed. I know a fishing hole that old timers called the "old sawmill" but that mill was likely closed well before beer cans. I am sure there are plenty of cans down there that have been thrown out by fisherman since but in the shallows I am talking about I can't imagine the older cans have held up very well. Still may be fun to paddle around with a metal detector one day just to see what turns up. Thanks for the responses, I figured fading would be an issue, was thinking a buried dump may hold up better underwater.

[buckeyerust]

Good morning,
here are a few of the cans I found in dredged materials.

[rick78]

Good morning,
here are a few of the cans I found in dredged materials.

These are incredible. Is there a published story anywhere about this, like in a Rustlings? The only water cans I ever found where from Lake Travis in Texas a few years ago and although complete, the flats just crumbled to the touch......

[Randy Karasek]

Here is published article of RB'ers Steve Gola and Jeff Dankert. BCCA 2016, Jan/Feb, pages 08-10, "Lakes Full Of Beer Cans", as part of Chris Taylor's "Beer Can Archaeology".
.

[Randy Karasek]

Here is the Rustlings article. Rustlings 2015, Oct/Dec, pages 18-19. Steve and Jeff also posted numerous pictures/posts to the RB message board I believe fall of 2015. Looks like they had some great dumping drips finding newly exposed underwater cans.
.

[rick78]

Great articles. Thanks!

[buckeyerust]

Good morning,
here are a few of the cans I found in dredged materials.

I forgot to say that the Schlitz is Full.
Any Ironguts up for that???

[plogan42]

Before using cutting paste (rubbing compound), the best way to reduce (only reduce) the usual paint discoloration caused by tannins on the typical red and yellow-colored enamel paints (from lake cans) is prolonged soaking in a base PH solution.

Soaking the can in a solution of water and baking soda (shortly after the can has been pulled from the depths, and naturally cleaned of muck, of course) for about a month in such 'base solution' will leach tannins from the top layer of the paint, such that subsequent buffing w. cutting paste will reduce the effects of discoloration on the deeper layer of certain enamel colors.

Allow the can at least two weeks to "dry out" after this base solution treatment.

While enamel or acrylic paint is not 'water soluable', paint does soften in solution (even straight, clear water, oxalic solution or the goop on a lake bottom for the last 70 yrs.), so you don't want to use cutting paste then. So let the can dry out after you do this 'base treatment', before hitting with cutting (rubbing) paste.

This discoloring of paint on cans submerged on lake bottoms is from the tanic acid found in decaying leaf vegetation, that finds it's way into lakes.
It releases this slightly acidic naturally-occurring acid, and over time, combined with the effects of submersion into mineral-laden muck, discolors the cans (certain colors more noticeably). Enamels more so than acrylics, as dried enamels surfaces are more soluble than tougher acrylic.

Cutting paste (rubbing compound) can help, but be careful, and realize it's not going to restore colors to their full glory. But it does help.
Just don't rub so deep as to remove all the paint. You're only trying to cut thru that tannin-stained surface, not rub out the can to bare metal. Be careful.

As always, continued experimentation is the key to success......just like stripping a paint-over.....

[plogan42]

Before using cutting paste (rubbing compound), the best way to reduce (only reduce) the usual paint discoloration caused by tannins on the typical red and yellow-colored enamel paints (from lake cans) is prolonged soaking in a base PH solution.

Soaking the can in a solution of water and baking soda (shortly after the can has been pulled from the depths, and naturally cleaned of muck, of course) for about a month in such 'base solution' will leach tannins from the top layer of the paint, such that subsequent buffing w. cutting paste will reduce the effects of discoloration on the deeper layer of certain enamel colors.

Allow the can at least two weeks to "dry out" after this base solution treatment.

While enamel or acrylic paint is not 'water soluable', paint does soften in solution (even straight, clear water, oxalic solution or the goop on a lake bottom for the last 70 yrs.), so you don't want to use cutting paste then. So let the can dry out after you do this 'base treatment', before hitting with cutting (rubbing) paste.

This discoloring of paint on cans submerged on lake bottoms is from the tanic acid found in decaying leaf vegetation, that finds it's way into lakes.
It releases this slightly acidic naturally-occurring acid, and over time, combined with the effects of submersion into mineral-laden muck, discolors the cans (certain colors more noticeably). Enamels more so than acrylics, as dried enamels surfaces are more soluble than tougher acrylic.

Cutting paste (rubbing compound) can help, but be careful, and realize it's not going to restore colors to their full glory. But it does help.
Just don't rub so deep as to remove all the paint. You're only trying to cut thru that tannin-stained surface, not rub out the can to bare metal. Be careful.

As always, continued experimentation is the key to success......just like stripping a paint-over.....

[canhawk]

Metal detector needed for this hunting, wait for a dry period for water to drop so you can explore lake bed

[pinnacle-project]

Good explanation Plogan42.