Quarts Qwarts Qwartz!!

[beercanmn3]

Been following this seller's E-Bay listings for about a week now. Last week he sold an Associated Brand Lager for $2,500+. Now he's listed a bunch of amazing quarts. He just keeps listing these incredible unrolled sheets. All these will easily top $1,000 I'd guess. The Old Missouri is so cool. Some rare stuff and condition is wow. When these sell, he'll have sold $12,000 to $15,000 or more in unrolled sheets in a weeks time. E-Bay's gotta love this guy.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unrolled-flat-p ... 43ce296a73" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unrolled-flat-p ... 3ce69a1ab6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unrolled-flat-p ... 3ce6aaca5a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unrolled-flat-p ... 43ce369ee9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unrolled-flat-p ... 3ce6ab032e" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Longhorn Mike]

Somebody found a can company or state liquor board storage cabinet!

- Mike

[Dan B]

There is something not right with these auctions.....I will explain.

About 2 months ago most of the dealers got a lead from a fellow in New Jersey, in this lead was a Blackhawk quart, Stegmaier quart, fox Deluxe quart and so on. I believe Beercanman scored the lead.

I questioned the owner of the flat sheets and where he found them? He told me they came from a friend of his who passed in 9/11 and that he knew nothing of the value of these flat sheets.

Jump ahead 2 months... Now a bunch more sheets show up on eBay, some good stuff..Associated, Ballantine triple crown you get the idea. The owner of these sheets is also From New Jersey....still with me?

Now on Wednesday Aug 20th I get a call from the same guy who had the Blackhawk quart, Ballantine triple crown and he tells me "hey I found more sheets" I responded great! What are they? Associated, Ballantine triple crown and so on. I respond by saying....."these cans were just on eBay, why would you buy them if you know nothing about beer cans?

My guess is he is one in the same, he bid his own cans up, and was stuck being the winner and now trying to sell them to the dealers. Who would spend $2500.00 on a flat sheet as a gamble to try and turn it for a profit if you know nothing about the hobby?

[CMD]

Yep just checked myself....most of those good cans with high bids were won all by the same person....very interesting

out

Dan

[OctoberAle]

No matter whether or not the sale of the Associated sheet actually happened, what is interesting to me is that it was only bid up to $2,500.00.
Doesn't that seem low for a can that is archived at Breweriana.com for $17,000.00? I would think that the chance to own a clean albeit rolled
example would still land well north of $2,500.00. No?
Does this say anything about the realities of the can market?

[beercanmn3]

Wouldn't the guy be stuck paying 10% fees to E-Bay on top of it all if he won his own auctions? At those prices, he's looking at $1,000++ in sellers fees. Not the smartest is he?!

[Dan B]

Steve,

You are correct on the prices of cans taking a dive. It's a buyers market, especially cone tops. I have noticed a big turn in the market about two months ago. Clean flats are doing o.k, as are tougher tabs and zips. O.I cans have held up the best so far, and cones have been the hardest hit. IMO.

Dan B

[dwaugh]

The less transparent Ebay tries to make itself in the name of 'buyer protection', the easier it is for buyers and sellers to deceive one another. Even if deception isn't intended, buyers have become so paranoid that it's the first thing that comes to mind when really rare stuff shows up from someone we don't know. Too good to be true; guilty until proven innocent. It is definitely one of several reasons I don't bid or sell on Ebay anymore. Unfortunately, it's become nearly impossible to track suspicious behavior, let alone prove it. I think this paranoia has impacted high-end ebay sales (within our own hobby at least) and will likely keep the prices down on some of these great quart sheets too, which may partially explain the perceived low price on the Associated. It'll definitely be interesting to consider what the 5 quarts sell for versus what they might sell for if offered by a known, reputable collector or dealer. Not that I personally believe any can is actually worth $17000, but If $2500 vs. $17000 is any indication, they could be a relative bargain.

[stringsx24now]

So why the dive in prices/values/sales? Is it one or two major players in the cone market suddenly not purchasing? Can one or two individuals make that much of an impact? Or is it something else? Anyone else seeing this major decline?

[Chris E.]

So why the dive in prices/values/sales? Is it one or two major players in the cone market suddenly not purchasing? Can one or two individuals make that much of an impact? Or is it something else? Anyone else seeing this major decline?

Actually, that is a really good question. We are seeing increase attendance at our shows and more collectors are coming out of the woodwork with the collector pages on Facebook. However, I am going to assume this increased interest isn't affecting the high end area of collecting, but rather, the lower and middle range of collecting. I do think that too many cans, which are really not that rare, are given too high of prices which negatively affects the prices of cans in general. From my own experience, I don't see very many tough dumpers for sale anymore at decent prices. Most of what I see are clean cans at 2 to 3 times book value or common dumpers that I would put in my 50 cent box at Blue-Gray.

Chris E.

[beercanmn3]

He just listed three more qwarts! They just keep coming...all rare. East coast, west coast, midwest - all different breweries and regions. How does a guy get all these rare sheets? Is Continental Can Co. the thing they all have in common? A reputable dealer wouldn't sell them on E-Bay - 10% fees plus E-Bay reports these amounts directly to the IRS. A serious collector wouldn't sell them at all (unless his wife made him). Strange....but love seeing these cans!

[Senator Seebs]

This is a case of a blind hog finding an acorn. Some very nice cans will be in circulation for collectors and in the end, that is a great thing.

[Wheaton]

Interesting story and sheets.

I can contribute little except to say that whomever rolls that White Cap sheet will have one helluva sweetheart. Wowza.

[OctoberAle]

Wowza, indeed. Stunning.

[Mike S]

Interesting story and sheets.

I can contribute little except to say that whomever rolls that White Cap sheet will have one helluva sweetheart. Wowza.

The white cap is the one that jumped out at me too!

mike s

[beercanman]

About 2 months ago most of the dealers got a lead from a fellow in New Jersey, in this lead was a Blackhawk quart, Stegmaier quart, fox Deluxe quart and so on. I believe Beercanman scored the lead.

I questioned the owner of the flat sheets and where he found them? He told me they came from a friend of his who passed in 9/11 and that he knew nothing of the value of these flat sheets.

Jump ahead 2 months... Now a bunch more sheets show up on eBay, some good stuff..Associated, Ballantine triple crown you get the idea. The owner of these sheets is also From New Jersey....still with me?

Now on Wednesday Aug 20th I get a call from the same guy who had the Blackhawk quart, Ballantine triple crown and he tells me "hey I found more sheets" I responded great! What are they? Associated, Ballantine triple crown and so on. I respond by saying....."these cans were just on eBay, why would you buy them if you know nothing about beer cans?

Dan is pretty much right on with his comments here. Yes, I got the "first" batch of flat sheets and Matt Menke is my marketing department for them. Quarts, flats, cones, zips, etc. Seller told us the same thing about the friend who died in the 9/11 terrorism.

As for the sheets he's got listed now, I don't get it either. Scratching my head trying to figure this one out!

Steve

[OctoberAle]

Thanks for the input, Dan and others. OK, so I'm still curious - all you guys who are dealers of cans to a lesser or greater extent, who were all aware of this find, none of you felt that an A1+ Associated cone flat sheet was worth even a $3,000.00 bid? Even as an investment? There are no potential buyers for a rolled example of that can? Even down the road? Or do you just not wish to enter the fray on ebay?
To me, the hesitation on the buying side of the deal is no less mysterious than the seller's actions. Isn't the really nice original Associated kind of unique in top condition? I've seen a grade one-ish, I believe, in addition to the real nice one, and I could be off base here, but thought it to be in the 8k range?

[Dan B]

Steve,

The questions I ask myself are......

Does he have more then one? Five? How many? The seller won't answer this question.

Who are my buyers? I had the Stark can and traded it to a good friend, Gene has one, Steve Meringer is looking for the can, but he bid on it, john Critchfield needs a upgrade but he also bid on it.

How many guys are willing to pay big money for a rolled can?


Cone tops are slowly becoming less desireable. At least what I have been noticing.

Do I think that can is worth more then $2500.00? Yes, but I couldn't think of a buyer. It is only worth what someone is willing to pay.

What is killing me now is Morean keeps the prices on his web site, some of these prices were from 10 years ago. So now I get a contractor who finds some cans and he quotes me the prices off of Breweriana web site. I try and explain how prices on some cans have really fallen, but they don't want to hear no such thing.

What really blows my mind is that contractor will call me back and tell me someone bought those cans at his price! HUH? I can never prove it, except for those over priced crappy sheet Gordon bought

Dan B

[canman65]

There is one thing that makes feel good to be back on here... Our own dealing buddy's are opening up about the current market condition. Thanks Guy's. To me you should both get a pat on the back...Thanks, Jack L.

[OctoberAle]

Thanks again Dan for the input. I tell you what, that shows just how thin and weak the market is for certain cans. I understand that rolled examples are difficult to evaluate, but still, this was a one-time $10,000+ can! And here's a clean sheet! I suppose you could also argue that the Associated lacks the 'graphic' element sometimes necessary to really drive value and desirability.

[Ceskydup]

Thanks for the input, Dan and others. OK, so I'm still curious - all you guys who are dealers of cans to a lesser or greater extent, who were all aware of this find, none of you felt that an A1+ Associated cone flat sheet was worth even a $3,000.00 bid? Even as an investment? There are no potential buyers for a rolled example of that can? Even down the road? Or do you just not wish to enter the fray on ebay?
To me, the hesitation on the buying side of the deal is no less mysterious than the seller's actions. Isn't the really nice original Associated kind of unique in top condition? I've seen a grade one-ish, I believe, in addition to the real nice one, and I could be off base here, but thought it to be in the 8k range?

I also was interested in the Associated Sheet but the timing was bad for me do the fact that my bank roll was / is Saved for Canvention next week. Maybe besides myself that also played into equation why bidding did not go crazy?

Skoal
Big "R"

[Dan B]

If I would have won the Associated I would have priced it at $5000.00+ (unless So Cal wanted it) and I probably would have sat on the can for awhile, but eventually it may have sold. Not everyone knows the associated sheet was on eBay. On any given day or time it may sell, or a certain show, and if I did have a buyer, he probably would think that the Associated was sold to cheap?

Dan B

[OctoberAle]

Big R,
Yes, lack of funding for my collecting habit is certainly bugaboo #1 on my list of collecting deterrents!

[THE EX MAN]

WATCH THERE BE MULTIPLE SHEETS .....EX

[OctoberAle]

Yes, there's certainly that possibility if you have a non-disclosing seller.

[John H.]

Pretty ballsy of the guy to list them without a reserve. I suppose he can make himself the high bidder again should the prices be less than what he wants. They won't be coming to my house!

JCH

[THE EX MAN]

WATCH THERE BE A ROSEILE ---TIGER --HILLMANS- SCHEPPS OR SOME OTHER SUPER RARE ..GOODIE COME OUT OF THE WOODWORK .....EX ....

[beercanexchange]

He shopped them to me too, I know he was bidding myself and a couple of us against each other. Same story, 911 buddy at least he was honest with me about his goal to get as much as he could for them. My only concern would be multiples, but I don't think that is the case because I know a few of us made big offers. If he had multiples he would have just sold one of each to all of us without anyone knowing at first.

[THE EX MAN]

I HAD THE SHOT AT IT TOO ....I WASNT IMPRESSED ....NOW HE,S GOT MY ATTENTION ,,,,AND ALOT OF OTHER PEOPLE ..THIS IS NOW GETTING INTERESTING ,,,,,,,,...WILL THIS GO ON, FOR A WEEK ---- 3 WEEKS --------6 MONTHS OR 3 YEARS ......ONLY HE KNOWS HOW MANY SHEETS HE FOUND ,,,,,TIME WILL TELL .....I HOPE WE DONT SEE MULTIPLES, OR SOME PEOPLE THAT PAID DEARLY WILL BE PISSED .....THINK ABOUT IT .......15 WHITE CAP QT CONES HIT THE MARKET ....15 WHITEHORSE CONES -AND SO ON ....= PRICE DROP ...,,,,,AND WHAT EVER ELSE COMES OUT OF THIS ,,,,,,,I LOVE TO SEE NEW FINDS = GREAT FOR THE HOBBY AND ALOT OF PEOPLE ADD TO THE SHELVES ..........BUT WHEN BIG MULTIPLE FINDS ERUPT ,,,,WAH WAH WAH ,,,,PLUS ROLLED CANS ,,,,,,,I LOVE ROLLED CANS ..SOME PEOPLE DONT ,,,THIS WILL BE INTERESTING .... TIME TO GET A PART TIME JOB AT BURGER KING ,,,,,,.EX .....

[beercanmn3]

Still rolling them out - three more nice quartz. What's it cost to have a sheet professionally rolled & lidded?