Move Over Krueger Special !??!

[Ed Kramer]

OK, Matt, I'll take you up on the wager - I'll say $849.00 on this thing. Whoever's closest owes the other a good beer.
Thinking a bit more about this...Although the can body itself may be prototypical, this thing is more of a hand painted commemorative relic than anything else. If it had nothing legible on it, would it have any value, even if thought to be an early beer can prototype?

I think this nails it. I was going to bid on it, but it just didn't sit right, and I think this is why. Although it is interesting and has value, the commemorative relic statement is the best description I have heard.

[OctoberAle]

Hey Mike Wilbur, no fair stepping in front of my number! This isn't The Price Is Right! :)

[Leon]

This website is interesting:

http://keglined.pssht.com/main.html

It shows another man as having the patent on beer cans as early as 1925. No mention of the eBay can.

Also, it says that Krueger's 'Special' Beer was not beer at all - it contained near beer. First I have heard of that.

So maybe Krueger's Special Beer was not the first beer can at all.

I have to disagree with some of the info on that site. My 1934 Krueger Special is 4% alcohol. My Prohibition non alcoholic Krueger beer was called KruegerBrau. Ect. LEON.

[CMD]

How do you know your Krueger special label is from 1934???

[Leon]

It could be 1935 but I think there is a date code on glass that may decifer to 34?

[HiNeighbor]

looks like a legit can to me that was specially made, probably by hand, probably not beer (beverage as shown before), as a commemorative timeline marker no different than those hand painted game footballs that reside in countless college trophy rooms (and collections) throughout the country. If it was a Narragansett can, or a Butterine container (dairy product that helped build the brewery), I would grab it in a heartbeat. Of course, if it was from RI, there would be no less than one more zero after the price.

[CMD]

leon, you cant rely on date codes of bottles because brewers re-used them and they even used different brewers bottles. You have to go by clues on the label. (send a picture of it to Bob Kay and he could tell you the exact date)

The winner of the can in question is just going to have to roll the dice and do more research once they have can in hand.

Im guessing a little over $2K

out

Dan

[Leon]

OK, I'll be more specific Dan, Has the G. Krueger Brewery listed which started in 1934 (was Gotffried before this) Has the Permit # which was usually gone by 1936, Has the rate Prescribed by Internal Revenue Tax Law that was usually shortened to just Internal Revenue Tax Paid by 1936. Also anything over 3.2 percent was not allowed till 1934. (December of 1933 actually) So as I said in earlier post about it last year dates to 1934-36 roughly. LEON.

[Sweeperman]

One more thought! There were supposed to be 2,000 or so Krueger Specials canned. Any one of the 2,000 cans would have been something very special simply because beer had never been in a can. Collectors and non collectors alike should have been able to have seen the future value of the Krueger can. Today, not a single example out of the 2,000 exist. Not one example has been dug. Not one example has turned up in a canning company employees home or brewery workers belongings. Nothing!

Now we have this sorry looking can on Ebay that looks like it was kept in a bucket of water since 1932. If this can was kept for historical , sentimental or any other reason wouldn't it be in better condition. Wouldn't it have been kept indoors and been cared for. At least kept in a box in the attic or garage. I have seen better looking cans pulled out of the dirt next to a road that looked better then this "keep sake". The owner of this can would have been better off just throwing it under their porch than keeping it where ever they kept it.

The seller says it came from an employee of the brewery or can company. But consider if it was dumped or found.

If this can was not kept by the original owner and was found or dumped by someone what would be the chances of that happening? 2,000 Krueger cans disappear without a trace and this one of a kind mongoloid just happens to be found. 1,000's open 1,000's of collectors have searched for a krueger Special and nothing is found.

Just ask yourself "how did this can get in this sorry condition" and I think we have to come to the conclusion that the can was made to look like that. It just doesn't seem logical that someone could keep a can or anything as a keepsake all these years and let the condition deteriorate like this can has. Then throw in that the can is hand painted and we end up having $354 dollars worth of garbage.

[CMD]

Sweeperman , you're right , its not an attractive can , but what you are overlooking is that unlike the dubious Krueger Speical (aka pipedream), it never had a top layer coat of paint so any peice of metal that is 80+ years old is going to tarnish and show its age. Who's to say that it was kept in a climate control indoor environment? My best guess is probably put up on a shelf in a garage or workshop and long forgotten until the original owner passed away and someone going through his things , flips this up.

If I had a couple extra grand laying around , I would certainly buy it! Im just sayin

out

Dan

[Cap-Sealed]

If someone was going to fake a can like this, wouldnt they make it more appealing? Then it would bring really big money. Isnt that the point of making a fake is to dup someone out of their hard earn cash? Why make a piece of crap when you create a beauty? Its a prototype, like it or not, and it's a historic can and perhaps the first can that EVER held beer!

[jomama]

One more thought! There were supposed to be 2,000 or so Krueger Specials canned. Any one of the 2,000 cans would have been something very special simply because beer had never been in a can. Collectors and non collectors alike should have been able to have seen the future value of the Krueger can. Today, not a single example out of the 2,000 exist. Not one example has been dug. Not one example has turned up in a canning company employees home or brewery workers belongings. Nothing!

Now we have this sorry looking can on Ebay that looks like it was kept in a bucket of water since 1932. If this can was kept for historical , sentimental or any other reason wouldn't it be in better condition. Wouldn't it have been kept indoors and been cared for. At least kept in a box in the attic or garage. I have seen better looking cans pulled out of the dirt next to a road that looked better then this "keep sake". The owner of this can would have been better off just throwing it under their porch than keeping it where ever they kept it.

The seller says it came from an employee of the brewery or can company. But consider if it was dumped or found.

If this can was not kept by the original owner and was found or dumped by someone what would be the chances of that happening? 2,000 Krueger cans disappear without a trace and this one of a kind mongoloid just happens to be found. 1,000's open 1,000's of collectors have searched for a krueger Special and nothing is found.

Just ask yourself "how did this can get in this sorry condition" and I think we have to come to the conclusion that the can was made to look like that. It just doesn't seem logical that someone could keep a can or anything as a keepsake all these years and let the condition deteriorate like this can has. Then throw in that the can is hand painted and we end up having $354 dollars worth of garbage.

Good points sweep! But I will disagree with you on one point... If it had been kept in a bucket of water for all these years ... it would be in better shape than it is now.

[OctoberAle]

Agree that the condition is very poor. But remember this thing may not have meant much to the second generation of ownership. Maybe a teenage kid in 1965 used it as an ashtray sneaking smokes in the garage. Who knows?

Here's a question: Before this, had anyone ever heard of Juerst? Any breweriana collector anywhere? Had his name entered the lexicon of historical figures mentioned in regards to brewing history? If not, then this is one fine piece of detective work by someone audacious enough to fabricate not only a beer can, but to attempt to potentially rewrite a piece of early beer can history at one of the most critical stages of development.

On another note, pertaining to the existence of a Krueger's Special can: I was told by a highly respected collector that years ago Dave Stark told him he had held that can in his hands. Also said that it was held by a family that did not want to sell it. I'm assuming this was before ebay - I'm guessing in the 80s? There may have been no higher known selling price at the time than the 6k Tiger and Rosalie can to entice a sale. Anyway, this tidbit coupled with the one legitimate looking color photo showing a Special can that actually matches existing advertising depictions leads me to believe that at least one of these cans is out there, but has not made it into the hobby yet. The Stark anecdote also strikes me as a possible point of origin for some of the yarns I've heard spun over the years by less credible 'historians'.

[sgramling]

My company makes products and packaging. When we are working on something new, there are usually many prototypes of both along the way. When the thing is finished and the actual inventory comes in, the prototypes and packaging mockups usually get tossed very uncerimonously into a box and stuck into storage. As for this can, it could be one of many. Maybe step 5 of 10. The lettering could have been applied years afterwards when someone was cleaning the closet, found the scraps of invention and decided to call this specific example the "first" because now beer was regularly sold in cans. At the time of creation, it would make sense that someone with a church key and was playing with it to see how well it worked - and then kept going after the first holes were punched. When was the churchkey invented? Along with the beer can or for other things like oil before that?

[Mike S]

2,000 krueger special cans is not that many, in fact its a tiny drop in the bucket. Look at the thread about the gretz shipping records, 13,224 bock j spouts 14,400 bock crowns yet none have surfaced. Its possible they were never filled, order cancelled or something else happened to them. Somewhere i seen some other shipping records (probably on here) of some other really rare can where there were many more than 2,000 cans produced so that argument does not work for me. As seen in the last few years new cans pop up all the time! As for the condition Ive seen indoor cans that look horrible and dumpers that look almost indoor, its all about moisture, oxygen and sunlight....so someones garage in Florida might have poorer conditions than a pit in northern California.

mike

[BeerCanRich99]

If you look at the new picture he put up (that I asked him for) it is now obvious that there is/was a thin sheet of clear plastic or some kind of coating on the can. You can see it peeling off.
The writing appears to be sticking to this film where it is peeled off. I am pretty sure it is on the INSIDE of the coating. This means the writing was put on the can before this top layer was applied. Still doesn't give a positive date or prove real/fake, but adds another level of intrigue! We shall know in a few hours what it sells for. Then we have to just hope it doesn't "disappear" in some Non-BCCA or Non-RB hands.

[OctoberAle]

gentleman he bought the can from is dead ... dead lead... no hope for provenance ....

Well, I respectfully disagree. The current owner HAS provided what seems to me to be a reasonable accounting of provenance.
It's actually more information than I would expect on such an item seeing as how it has never apparently been in possession of a dedicated beer can collector.

[Leon]

How do you know your Krueger special label is from 1934???

i can see the date code from here its 1940 40 ( o with I in it) 4 E Owens ill glass co , is (o with I in it )

Since when do brewing co emboss there glass with there name in 1940, Since when do the brewing co put Permit #'s on there 1940 labels or the rate Prescribed by? You got some bad info there???? LATER.

[OctoberAle]

Two people disagreed with my $849.00 guesstimate!

[CMD]

WOW $3800 not a bad deal for the FIRST beer can !

out

Dan

[Leon]

Wonder who got high bid? LEON.

[bradflinders]

That was interesting watching the bidding jump from $783.00 to $3800.00 in the last 2 seconds of the auction. I'm sure if the winner is an RB member they will fess up and post more photos.

[rlfplf]

I was 777

[Cap-Sealed]

$3800! I guess someone thinks it REAL ....I never thought it would go for that much, but its says right one the can "FIRST BEER CAN!" Its historic! Speaking of historic, the 1st beer can ever filled was dumped by Mark Bryant - he dug up an American Can Co O/I Test can...see July 1995 RUSTlings.

[Sweeperman]

At $3,800 I'm willing to bet there are more "the first beer can" to surface. Since they, like the one just sold, are all hand painted each will be a one of a kind variant.

Looks like those rusty, crusty cans we throw to the side while dumping hold great value after all. I may have even had the first beer can in my hands and not even known it. I should have looked a little closer and painted what I thought it said on the can. The possiblities are endless with this precedent!

[OctoberAle]

This is a 'tall' can, so unless you are dumping 5 5/16" cans with odd two tooth seams, you are not throwing any of these by the wayside.

I indirectly addressed the notion of copycat items in an earlier post. Now that we've seen this one, similar items to follow would be subjected to more intense scrutiny and would presumably have a higher bar to clear as a credibility hurdle.

Also does anyone know if the tall Southside cans match this can's dimensions?

[Cap-Sealed]

This is a 'tall' can, so unless you are dumping 5 5/16" cans with odd two tooth seams, you are not throwing any of these by the wayside.

I indirectly addressed the notion of copycat items in an earlier post. Now that we've seen this one, similar items to follow would be subjected to more intense scrutiny and would presumably have a higher bar to clear as a credibility hurdle.

Also does anyone know if the tall Southside cans match this can's dimensions?

My tall Ambrosia is 5.5"....

[OctoberAle]

You're saying 5 1/2" ?
So is 5 5/16" a unique can height?

[keglined]

Dr. Richard H. P. Juerst, Harvard Brewmaster with some time at Krueger under his belt:

http://keglined.pssht.com/19330928_lowe ... riteup.pdf

Also, there were several articles in newspapers between 1933-1934 about test runs on beer cans. Farrell, Pennsylvania articles claimed a local brewer was about to start selling beer in cans. If I ever get more than five minutes free, I'll add all this to my site.

http://keglined.pssht.com/main.html

Cheers,

Phil

[Conehead]

Wow, that is interesting. I am only about 5 miles from Farrell, PA. It is a pretty run down (and rough) low income town now, but back in the day it was very industrious. Many, many abandoned houses there. I wonder if any of them hold one of these first cans?

Jim