Move Over Krueger Special !??!

[Cap-Sealed]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Prototype-World ... 2ec3f893d8

[Sweeperman]

The old " let me say I'm not a beer can collector. The can belongs to a friend" statement. Looks like it's homemade to me. 1931 seems way to early to start testing beer in cans not knowing when proabition would end! Also looks like they needed to work on a can opener that didn't shred the lids when used.

[chaunasknight]

So was it Kruger beverage co or brewing co? Wouldn't think it would be brewing co during prohibition? Well some did go by that didn't they? Shouldn't it be one or the other? Not both, seems weird to me.

[BeerCanRich99]

I did some research on Ancestry.com and Google...
If this is a fake, it seems pretty detailed.

The can says it was Originated And Developed by a "R H P JUERST" with Krueger in Newark, NJ.

In the 1930 Census for Clifton, NJ (suburb of Newark?) there is a Richard H.P. Juerst listed as a "Chemist" at a "Brewery".

This same Mr. Juerst was born in 1879 in Germany.
In 1905 he was a chemist with the Indianapolis Brewing Co., per 1905 directory.
In 1929 Patterson, NJ directory he is listed as a "chemist".
By 1934 he is listed in the Lowell, Mass directory as the VP of the Harvard Brewing Company.
He held that job for many years.
In 1942 he registered for the draft (at 62 years old!) and listed his employer as the Harvard Brewing Company.

Google search shows he was the Brewmaster at Harvard.

He passed away Oct. 3, 1963 in Lowell Mass.

Like I said, it's either a really interesting fake, or requires more research!!

[CMD]

Given the details that beercanRich provided , Im going to say it's legit

[Daev Larrazolo]

How can it be fake? Looks like its old to me no way that could have been made.

[stringsx24now]

Not giving my opinion on legit or fake, but.....
Didn't the can company develop the can and went in search of a brewery to test it's new invention (the beer can), and Krueger said yes? Would not that contradict the assertion on the can that it was developed by the Krueger Bev/Brwg company? Or is our generally accepted history in the hobby wrong?
I do agree, if it is a fake, they went to a lot of trouble with legitimate pieces of information subtly included. All that trouble with a small pay-off??

I just don't know.

[Longopener]

Perhaps that's why American Can Company went to Krueger due to the brewery experimenting with cans? After all, Coors researched developed the aluminum beer can in the 50's. Not saying that Krueger developed the beer can but perhaps American Can Co. and Krueger had been conversing about canning beer and since American had developed the container so it could be mass produced and the canning lines, Krueger was a good choice to test.

[Bryan2]

Looks like it was hand lettered. The lower case d's and a's aren't consitently lettered. It will be interesting to see how the bidding goes. It would make more sense to let collectors and dealers see it in person first, before letting it rip for bid. I would be cautious buying something like that without more research and provenance.

[canhawk]

In addition to what BeerCanRich found, Juerst also was an inventor...

1954 patent dial for telephones --- http://tinyurl.com/bonr4s8
He invented the Ebulliometer, an instrument to measure alcohol in drink.
In a 1907 trade journal, R. Juerst has an article on paraffin for brewery vessels --- http://tinyurl.com/cagnaou

I think the can shows fairly compelling "patina" and labeling

[sgramling]

If the lettering was done at the time of creation, why would it have an estimated date: 31-32? Why wouldn't it say, "August 16, 1931". Did it take 2 years to make that? Even if it did, wouldn't the inventor just write the completion date on it?

[beercanman]

I'd prefer to put the Krueger's Special on my shelf.

After reading here and looking at the photos, I'm still not convinced. I'm not going to say fake, but I'm also not ready to call it real. Strange indeed.

[josh]

Everyone has the same access to the same information on the web. The info found by folks here is the same info the guy who made the can found. Any monkey could figure out that this internet thing may have caught on and finding a searchable inventor, brewer or whatever to include on the fake would be prudent as the buyer is likely to have heard of this Google thing. The burden of proof and provenance is on the seller, until such proof is presented I wouldn't go changing the beer can history we've all spent our adult lives documenting. What beer was Krueger brewing during prohibition that would have been in the can?

[dwaugh]

If it is real, it's a developmental prototype, never marketed or even printed on a canning line from the looks of it. Which would still make a Krueger's Special the first can to have actually been commercially produced, documented, printed in quantity -- however limited that may have been -- and to have held beer. I know there are patents out there for other prototypical can designs but I don't recall anyone ever claiming them to be a threat to challenge the Krueger's Special's place as the ultimate holy grail. I collect cans for their colorful, graphic nature. While their historical significance is intriguing, it is secondary. So this can has zero appeal to me even if it is the very first beer can. I would take a Krueger's Special any day!

[Mike S]

Interesting that its about the same shape and size of a crown flat. As someone else noted, definitely had lettered. Even if its real its a prototype and not a "real" can, how many test cans (especially in this condition) would bring in the money of a krueger special....none.
mike

[CMD]

Krueger Special is an urban legend , a myth, a pie in the sky, a fable not unlike bigfoot and the Lost Dutchman mine......if they were out there , they would have been found by now

out

Dan

[Leon]

The Info on this can does not match the info in my Book The Development of a New Container, THE BEER CAN. This book was put out by American can co. in 1937 & tells all about how the first beer can was first concieved with some dates & some names & all the difficulties it had to overcome along the way. Krueger did nothing but agree to be the first to put there beer in there can the can company already developed with no help from Krueger. LEON.

[Cap-Sealed]

Anyone who knows anything about Research & Devolopment knows that nothing is invented overnight. It takes years and tons of money to bring an idea to market. The beer can was not invented in a day.... certainly it took years to perfect. That being said, expermenting with tin containers for beer in 1931-32 is not that far fetched.

I have no idea if this can is legit but it is certainly cool for what it is.

[Leon]

My book tells how many years & how much money.

[chaunasknight]

Krueger Special is an urban legend , a myth, a pie in the sky, a fable not unlike bigfoot and the Lost Dutchman mine......if they were out there , they would have been found by now

out

Dan

I can let you say Krueger Special is a myth, and it's ok to question the Lost Dutchman's Mine, but calling bigfoot a fable is where I draw the line. Something BIG is out there, at least in the hills of the Pacific North West. I am positive that one is NOT an urban legend.

[Daev Larrazolo]

I read many yrs ago that a Montana brewer wanted beer in cans an they tried but couldn't get the lining correct. Was that in the BCCA book? Because I don't read much so it had to be there where I read it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Wheaton]

I'm not convinced by it, but it's interesting.

The seller says there's a little bit of attached paper label, where the "Be" shows up on white background. In the part to the right of that there's a vertical stripe that's still visible as a ghost image. Guess my computer screen is too small to see that part well - it looks like chemically eroded lithography. Then there's the handpainting, or what looks like it. It's damaged but most of the lettering is in pretty decent shape. That's actually what bugs me the most. There's an almost desperate feel to that level of preservation on a can that looks like it spent half a century in turpentine; still, whomever did it had a very precise feel for late 20s/early 30s calligraphy and font styling.

The beadless lids and robust two-toothed seam are interesting, too. Could have been toilet bowl cleaner for all I know, but it at least has the appearance of a very early prototype-ish construction style.

Tough call. At worst, it's one hell of a curious forgery.

[canhawk]

Even if it's real I don't think it would replace in history the Krueger Special test market can. The prototype in question could have been a valiant attempt and a flop, like any test or prototype can become.

I agree with Josh's observation that if we found supporting info on the web, anyone could. So far we have not revealed evidence of collaboration between Juerst and Krueger.

Most versions of our current beer can history repeats some version of this phrase: "American Can Co. began experimenting with beer cans in 1931." A prototype from 1931-32 is plausible. So is hand-written labeling. Even test pull tabs decades later used hand-drawn labels. Juerst's attempt may have failed so miserably that it never received any press or recognition. That they labeled the vessel as the "first" can does not contradict its failure. Marketeers often pre-advertise success prior to failure. Maybe the date 1931-32 is when Juerst worked on the can. Am. Can might not have been involved with this can at all.

Or Ditto has just been one-upped

[Wheaton]

Or Ditto has just been one-upped

That very thought crossed my mind. If this is a bogus can it at least pays some graphic homage to the appropriate time period. Conversely, when Ditto puts "Internal Revenue Tax Paid" on one of his creations, I get the feeling I'm reading a sign in an airport terminal. The man's sensibilities for font style score a perfect zero.

[Leon]

I never seen a Krueger can that said Krueger brewing company. My Baldie's say G. Krueger brewing co & my others upto the 1950's say G. Krueger & my 1933 Krueger Special bottle say's G. Krueger Brewing & my 1933 KruegerBrau 1/2% Cereal Beverage say's Gottfried Krueger Brewing. Never seen a Krueger can saying Krueger brewing so this makes me suspicious. LEON.

[Tom Hoefer]

Let's assume for a minute that it is real. If so, I believe the writing on it came at least several years after the can was developed. If you created something brand new, for which you had no idea that it would ever work, would you put on it that it was the first ever made, not knowing that there ever would be another made? The can was made, perhaps in 1931-2, then after beer cans became popular, somebody decided it was important to commemorate this prototype by writing its significance on it. That would explain why the date is rather broad.

[Leon]

That sounds very possible. LEON.

[jomama]

is there another container that is the same size with no lining inside and heavy unbeaded lids from the 1930's? I've never seen a can with a toothed seam like that. Beer can or not, I'd say the uniqueness of the container would be valuable to somebody... If it is unique?

[CMD]

I never seen a Krueger can that said Krueger brewing company. My Baldie's say G. Krueger brewing co & my others upto the 1950's say G. Krueger & my 1933 Krueger Special bottle say's G. Krueger Brewing & my 1933 KruegerBrau 1/2% Cereal Beverage say's Gottfried Krueger Brewing. Never seen a Krueger can saying Krueger brewing so this makes me suspicious. LEON.

My best guess about this is, remember it was made by the can company guys , not the brewery guys , they probably only knew they were making a can for Krueger, if brewery guys made this , then for sure the G or Gottfried would have been included.

Although its not the first production beer can , an early prototype like this is still historically valueable to the hobby , as it gives us an insight to their thought processes in the early challenges of canned beer

someone is going to land up with a nice peice of beer can history

out

Dan

[jomama]

I agree Dan, and to my point there are collectors out there that just collect different size and shape containers regardless of the label. This would be of historical significance to them as well.
I reserved a Krueger ale pint cone from Woody before his find hit blue-gray years ago... I immediately listed my holey dumper on ebay and sold it for more than I paid for Woody's a month before that fantastic room feeding frenzy. The guy that bought my dumper was from Australia and could care less about the holes or even the label. It was a 'new' shaped container to him to put in his collection.